Lindsey Kleinberg: Experiencing nature, creating connection, and healing (transcript)

Highlight [0:00]

Chapter’s show notes…

Lindsey (00:00:05):
(highlight) So I’ve noticed a lot as well with like a journey of healing. That again, with the laws of traction and with healing yourself, just for the purpose of leading a more fulfilling life, there’s less chances for depression and anxiety and getting caught up in other people’s things and, and feeling the wounds that are not yours to feel and healing the ones that are not yours to heal. And when you’re really working on a, a personal journey, if you are making those steps for positive impact and change people around you, whether or not they will admit, they start to feel those things. (/highlight)

Intro [0:50]

Chapter’s show notes…

Craig (00:00:53):
(chapter) Hello, I’m Craig Constantine. Welcome to the movers mindset podcast, where I talk with movement enthusiast to learn who they are, what they do and why they do it. This episode is with Lindsey Kleinberg, experiencing nature, creating connection and healing, Lindsey Kleinberg advocates for nature play in the most important way, practicing what she preaches. She shares her experiences, raising her family through alternative and nature education, and why it’s important to her. Lindsey describes the benefits of home gardening, self care and how she approaches creating change. She discusses books, blogging art, and what she hopes to achieve in her community. Lindsey Kleinberg is an educator artist, avid gardener and nature play advocate. She is the founder of the finding place. Lehigh valley, a Reggio inspired micro school, whose mission is to reconnect kids with nature. In addition to her master’s degree, Lindsey is certified in many areas, including nature based outdoor education and school garden coordinator. For more information on this or any episode, go to movers Thanks for listening.

Raising a family [2:08]

Chapter’s show notes…

Craig (00:02:10):
(chapter) Hello, I’m Craig Constantine

Lindsey (00:02:13):
And Lindsey Kleinberg.

Craig (00:02:14):
Hi Lindsey. Thanks for taking the time out of your I’m assuming busy schedule mother educator, arts council, gardener, food grower. I mean, I’m not trying to make light of all the many things that you’re doing because I think it’s really on one hand, I’m always super curious, like how do cause I have the same problem. I’m gonna put ideas, whereas in your mouth, I have the same problem with too many things to choose from. And I spend a lot of time trying to figure out like, all right, where do I put the crowbar to get the most? What I want, like self healing, recovery, uh, best for my kids, best for my family, best for the world. So let’s start with, I am so down with the whole gardening and food and being outside barefoot and not like I’m homeless and I live on the street, but I’m real.

Craig (00:03:06):
And like Lindsey is rotating for those of you at home who can’t see ha she’s rotating all the stickers about, I like to save the pollinators by the way. And we were talking a little bit, we mentioned, I’m going to say a mutual friend we have, who’s been on the podcast. We like talked about organic gardening and Rodale, which happens to be nearby. So I’m gonna say when you guys do you and your husband decided to have kids and start a family, did you, were you thinking like, all right, we have an idea of how we want to raise them from the very beginning, or did you stumble maybe a little mean or did you stumble into, Ooh, you know what we should do? And like course correcting as you go. So like, was it a designed journey for the kids, like the kids experience or was it more of a, oh, what could possibly go wrong?

Lindsey (00:03:50):
I think as a slightly OCD graphic designer, I have a plan for everything and a plan for when things go wrong. So I definitely had an idea of what I wanted my children to experience before I had children, like 20 years ago already. But, uh, then I, um, started implementing that when I did have my children eight years ago.

Craig (00:04:19):
One of the things that I, that you write about on Instagram about is that I should just let you talk about it, but the, the idea of like, you need to get down into the dirt, literally you need to eat food that was grown. And like, it’s a, it’s a long, deep rabbit hole of like, well then what’s the soil and are there worms? And like, there’s a whole bunch, but like at the most basic level, I love the way you put it. Everybody should grow something like start a window garden, grow in her. And I think obviously you’re right. I think you’re right about when you care for a plant there’s there’s like, yes, maybe it’s food. Maybe it’s just generally good for the environment, but there’s also something you’ve learned about yourself, about being responsible and nurturing and caring. And I’m going to guess your kids are old enough that you’ve now had a chance to like, not just like, yes, see them learn, but as they get older, now you can start to talk to them about, so what do you guys think? And now that you see the rest of the kids in the world, and you’ve now you realize that, oh, my upbringing was sadly unusual, right? So have you, have you had a chance to get some perspective talking to them, I’m going to say talking to them as like, you know, adults now, you know, they’re not like out with their kids, they’re on their own airlines and things, but now that you’re able to talk to them about it, what have they thought about what you guys have done in their upbringing?

Lindsey (00:05:42):
My children are five and eight and we have always talked to them like living humans who exist in a world. That’s ever-changing. I think that they recognize that they are different than other children. There are obviously people who have been brought up to, to farm and garden and, and, uh, experienced nature, but they have been talking since they were before the age of one. And we have talked about growing and tending and, and creating and evolving ever since they were very small. And I think that they’re very appreciative of the freedom and liberties they’ve had with the opportunities in nature to explore and investigate and find themselves. So they do recognize that they have had different opportunities than other children. And, and I think it really impacts how they interact with other people and how they interact with themselves and each other and, and us as a family and our, and our property.

Craig (00:06:50):
I was just going to say, do you think it’s enough to, I don’t remember. Was it Gandhi? Who said be the change you want to see in the world? Do you think it’s enough? I’m guessing you already saying no. Do you think it’s enough to, for them to simply simply as if it’s easy to simply grow up as, you know, decent people raised with good food and good background, or is it necessary that you, that they also go on to do what you’ve done, which is yes. Okay. I’m, I’m raising people as best I can, but I am also doing outreach. I’m also opening my garden to visitors. I’m also bringing other people in I’m also, I’ve taught, you know, like your CV is rather long, right. Weekly to kind of skip over that part. Um, but like, what are your thoughts on unlike it’s one thing to be brought up well, and to recognize the benefits that one has gotten. And then is there a responsibility that goes with that for them to eventually go on and follow in mom’s footsteps?

Lindsey (00:07:44):
I think that they obviously have their own opinions or the ability to do, do things in a way that they feel is fit for them. I think that starting so early and just creating a strong foundation and an empathy and a stewardship and taking care of the land and themselves and growing planting seeds. I wrote about that on my blog a few weeks ago, like planting seeds of hope and planting seeds of change and planting seeds of flowers and planting seeds of food and how everyday we should plant a seed. I think that when you just do these things and they’re not done with expectations, they’re just done because you feel like it’s the right thing to do. I don’t think my children even think about it as, as a, like an extra responsibility. It’s just an extension of themselves. And I imagine that they would continue to do that when they get older, because it’s just what they know. It’s not a chore. It’s not like a hardship it’s we give back to people and, and we give assistance and we grow and we teach because some people don’t know this and we want to raise awareness. And, um, my children want to be Marine biologists and artists and teachers and engineers when they grow up, uh, because they want to make a difference and they want to improve the space so that other children can learn and play and grow.

Aha moments [9:19]

Chapter’s show notes…

Craig (00:09:19):
(chapter,highlight) So I don’t really know who listens to the show because like, it’s podcasting, it’s really hard to tell, but I suspect a lot of people who listen are, um, I’m going to say, like in a leadership position, I don’t mean like they’re, you know, in charge of a fortune 500 company, although if you are please hit the tip cup, however, the people who listen, they might be, um, a parkour instructor, or they might be a parent of their own, or they might, you know, be a team manager. Like there’s, they’re not like doing things all by themselves, in a bubble. And if they’re nodding along as I hope they are going, yeah. Like I I’m picking up what you’re laying down, Lindsey. Uh, I’m wondering, so I know you have a lot of experience in teaching and I’m wondering if there are things that you see that let’s call this a, a fire that light this fire within people.

Craig (00:10:08):
Like, is it, is it the first time they plant something and then it grows and then it like a pepper, you know, then they get to eat, like eat the scrutiny. The string beans, I guess, is a common one for kids to do. Right. Is it, is it the planting and the growing and creation of food or is it, you know, something more horticulture is like, what, what are the things that I’m going to say, light the muggles up to make them realize that there’s a whole another world out there that they could really be involved in.

Lindsey (00:10:35):
So that aha moment with, uh, I think that recently I was at the Rodale earth day on the farm and I was running events there. I was doing their activities. And there were a lot of adults who had brought their children. They were very excited and it was 35 degrees and 20 mile per hour winds. But we were planting seeds of fruiting plants. So we were planting seeds for watermelons and satin flowers. And no matter what is going on, I always take a moment to remind people. Um, I talked to the children and the parents at the same time, I I’ll look between both of them when I’m talking, like, remember these are organic seeds. So when you grow the fruit, you want to take some aside and clean the seeds and wash them and lay them out to dry. And then the parents said, and then, and then what? And I say, then you save them and next year you plant them. And I go, but, okay. So then what do they do? And then they grow into watermelons and they’re like, what? Like everything you need, you already have, like, you can buy one pepper and you could grow 40 pepper plants from one single pepper. Right. And each pepper plant, even if it’s a terrible year, we’ll get three peppers. And each pepper will have 30 to 50 seeds.

Lindsey (00:12:17):
And then like, but then what do you do? You eat them? And then you clean the seeds and wash them. And then you plant them and they’re like, well, what happens if it doesn’t grow? Well, then nothing is different than if you didn’t do anything to begin with. And, and you could see for a second that the adults that even brought their children to this event at Rodale, which was like so fun, and you got to do so many different things and experience the farm in different ways. These are people who are already knowledgeable about organic. And they did not realize that we already have so many things at our fingertips that we’re just like throwing in the garbage. And I think that’s a really moving, it’s not even like putting the seed in the ground. It’s recognizing there’s a problem. And recognizing that there are solutions that nature just gives to us.

Craig (00:13:24):
Sometimes I just want to press stop just because it’s hard to like, yeah, I got nothing to add to that. Thank you. Yes, please. (/highlight) More of that also. I wish I could talk somebody into composting around here, but anyway, I do know, I know you compost. That’s not who I was referring to. Okay.

Lindsey (00:13:46):
I’m working on it. Let’s just say I’m working on it.

Craig (00:13:51):
That’s also not who I was talking about.

Education and nature [13:57]

Chapter’s show notes…

Craig (00:13:52):
(chapter) But anyway, moving on nothing to see here, the let’s let’s turn left. Remind me the name. Uh, not Montessori. We, we already did this before. Yes. Just give me that in a paragraph. So people don’t know what it is.

Lindsey (00:14:06):
So the Waldorf practices really work with the environment as a third teacher, they use a lot of natural materials. Uh, there’s a lot of play and folklore and storytelling, uh, real hands-on learning. My daughter is making little breads on Monday and then they bake them and she eats her homemade bread on Tuesday in school. And she’s in kindergarten and they work with real beeswax clay, and they, you know, sing songs and they follow, uh, rituals that have to do with the seasons and, and other natural learning experiences. So we really take parts of like Waldorf as well as Reggio-Emilia and Reggio-Emilia really focuses on, um, learning based on the experiences in your community. Multi-generational learning and also using environment as the third teacher and natural materials as well as light. And they learn everything through the lens of an art studio. So I take pieces, bits, and pieces of both of these things when I’m considering my path for it,

Craig (00:15:23):
What to do. So the town that we’re sitting in is gentrified. And I’m, I’m wondering like, is it enough to, uh, I’m going to say this is bad. Is it enough to just fix the kids? Or do we also have to, like, is there, did you ever hear the phrase there’s a, a fold in the newspaper? Like, is this above the fold above the fold? Like some of the people are below the fold, like, sorry. Like, you don’t need to get, you don’t need to leave in a hurry, but we’re going to go around you. But I’m wondering, you know, there are people who, a lot of people who have a job and are busy and okay. We’re not commuting to work these days, but I don’t see anybody going. I suddenly have so much free time when the pandemic first started. I’m normally out.

Craig (00:16:08):
And about every day, all of a sudden it was like, every day is Saturday. There are people I’m like this there’s hope for you. Mindy, look, parents with kids and looking at like, you know, like social distancing. Yes. But the parks were jammed. Now we’re back to normal, back to the, the, you know, the normal Western, not so good. Normal. And I’m just wondering, cause I th I think you have some interesting ideas, interesting. In a good way, interesting ideas about how to use art and how to, to like attract people to let’s just the hope. Like they came to the organic gardening thing and somebody stood in front of you and you were able to say something that probably changed the parent enough that they might’ve went home. And I don’t know, did something different. We’ll take it. So I’m just wondering, like, for people who are listening, who get fired up, like, what do you do with that? Like where can they go? Or what can they try to do to see? Cause like, if we were talking about par core, I could, and lots of people listening, we could have a discussion and we know ways to engage people on how to get on the play. But how do you do that with the holistic concept of culture, the permaculture and gardening and

Craig (00:17:23):
Okay, good. It’s not just me,

Lindsey (00:17:26):
Uh, so much to say. I think it’s, I think that people think it’s really difficult and it puts a roadblock. And I think that the most difficult part is that everyone is something that I’ve recognized while doing all these things and really being barefoot outside and being dirty and like digging and, and getting upset when I’m working really hard on my garden. And my next door, neighbors don’t know anything about gardening and they have a bajillion tomatoes and all mine have died.

Craig (00:18:01):
I made a, you

Lindsey (00:18:02):
Know, I, um, so many people have become stuck in these arbitrary time schedules where they’re stressed out. They have no rest time. They’re not taking vacations to replenish their connection to themselves or to nature. I just think they’re not maybe seeing their children as, as children anymore either. So it makes it really difficult. I think for people to see , and know how to make changes. (quote) I think that the easiest change to do is literally get a pot of dirt and put it on your backslab. You don’t have to have a yard. You can be anywhere. You can be in the city. You can be in the suburbs, you can be on a farm and still have a small plot that is just for your children, for them to grow and plant, or literally make a fairy garden or make put dinosaurs. If you don’t like fairies, whatever, like a car pit, I don’t care have a plot of dirt where you are in there and you are touching dirt every day. You don’t have to be making something grow besides your imagination and your love for an appreciation for the earth. (/quote) And I think that we just are not thinking about that because we’re like, oh, I haven’t got to make the bucks. And I’ve got to do all the things and I’ve got to be in all the clubs, but none of those things are really replenishing, like human traits. I don’t know. I think we’ve just gone really far away from being humans.

Craig (00:19:53):
I think one of the big, I know this is a big challenge for me. One of the big challenges is peoples will learn to say no to stuff. And because I don’t think you’re going to push back because you’re nodding quietly, but some people push back. When I say, you need to learn to say no to like everything, because every yes is a note to an unknown number of things. And whereas one note is just one note. He only said, oh, one thing, um, people pushed back and I say, you know, organisms are composed of cells and cells have walls. Cells say, note, uh, basically everything, except I’ll take some glucose, thank you. Or I’ll take some of this. And I think that if people slow down, ha that’s hard, slow down and start to think about, well, and not that I would pick on video games, but like, why do I want to watch this TV show?

Craig (00:20:43):
If you have an answer for that question, like it’s family bonding night, or, you know, my kids haven’t seen a star wars series, which needs to be rectified, or, you know, my kid wants to show me this cartoon, okay, whatever you can watch, you can entertainment as legit. People used to tell stories around fires that which is better than TV, but also a complete waste of time. Right? We’re not producing anything, but what are you doing? Well, you’re bonding with your family members or you’re bonding with your, your group of people or whatever word you like for the people that we hang out with on Tuesdays. Um, so I think for some people, bowling league is awesome. Like, you know, get out, move your arms a little bit, do your thing. But when everything just becomes what’s next. So I gotta do this, I gotta do that.

Craig (00:21:23):
And it just becomes like a harried rush from thing to thing. Um, so I totally agree with you. I think my brain is trying to remember somebody’s name. I’m not going to get it wrong. So I’m going to just skip it. Someone in a podcast said to me, there was talking about sit spotting. It’s just like sit and spot things, super easy, go out. And he recommended finding like, find a place that you can do this, like over and over all the time, every season. So maybe it’s a favorite park bench. Um, and you just go there and sit and see what you spot and then go home, you know, and then do it again. And I think part of the magic of that is it creates silence in yourself. You know, first time you sit down, it’s like, [inaudible] a little bird, you know, like then after a while, then that you realized that that’s a much more, much more fun way to be.

Healing practices [22:13]

Chapter’s show notes…

Craig (00:22:12):
(chapter,highlight) Um, so do you, do you, uh, somebody, like I was going to say, do you teach your children like those kinds of self, um, self healing practices intentionally? Or do they like soak it up? You know, let’s just what we do. You do see what I’m saying?

Lindsey (00:22:28):
Yeah. I, um, we actually do a lot of yoga with, uh, our friend, the lovely little Lotus. She has stuff online as well. Um, Liris is great with children. And, um, we, a few years ago, my son asked for a garden Buddha for his birthday. That’s all he wanted. And then both of my children chose where to put it in the garden. They picked the stump and just on their own, when the flowers bloomed, they picked one of each flower and placed it in the hands of the garden, Buddha. And, um, that could sound super corny to somebody like, oh, I don’t know. And I literally started to cry. I was like, oh, what are you? What are you guys doing? Well, we’re giving thanks for our garden. And then they both will stand very quietly on the rocks or they climb the Magnolia tree and they just sit there quietly, just standing, just because, and I mean, it’s not something that you never go past a school during recess and see children standing quietly on the grass, like during recess with their arms out and their hands open to the sky, like kids are screaming like crazy and running around and falling over and doing whatever.

Lindsey (00:23:57):
I think that we, I mean, if you drive past my house, you normally see at least my children on a blanket laying in the yard every day. Sometimes they’re also eating. Sometimes they have crafts out sometimes they’re, I mean, it could be anything they’re normally painting or doing chalk or cutting up things for garage sales for six months from now making a

Craig (00:24:29):
Tracing there, there all

Lindsey (00:24:30):
These types of, of healing. And, and we have done sit spots before as well. And we do have our places. It’s normally this ornamental cherry tree to the side where the kids, if I can’t find them, they’re normally in a tree and it looks different all the time, but it looks different based on what they need. (/highlight)

Craig (00:24:55):
So I’m thinking about energy levels, right? So kids, I mean like kids are kids, right? Kids are energetic, kids, you know, the is fully charged. I’m good for about four hours. And then I need an nap and I, and, and like, yes, that’s the circle of life, but there’s also an energy level that I see. Not that I go to the supermarket a lot, but you know, the classic scenario is you go to the supermarket and there’s two parents and three kids, and this kid wants that. And this kid’s pulling thing. And like, and, and I look at it and I go, okay, what actually is wrong here? Like, I mean, yes, you’re, your kids are holy monsters. But, um, the problem is not, you’re not disciplining them in the market. That’s not going to fix anything, you know, and like corporate punishment. Doesn’t like it.

Craig (00:25:41):
So what, and I’m thinking, I’m just thinking now, it’s like, yeah, there’s an energy. There’s like a, I don’t know if mom and dad are grumpy and angry. Guess what happens to the kids? They’d like vibrate to the same, everybody dances at the same tune. And I think with when your children’s spontaneously do what to, some people might think about that crazy stuff. I don’t think it looks crazy, but some people might say, oh, that looks crazy. What your kids are doing is going like, yeah, look, this is the type of person that I am, you know, like, okay. It came out with flowers in a Buddha, or it came out in a Christian prayer and somebody else’s kids. However, it comes out, they’re demonstrating that they have a, um, my brain’s going like a longer wavelength. They’re, they’re more tuned in. And I’m thinking that people who might be interested in like, like, what the heck are you guys talking about?

Craig (00:26:30):
If you are not in one place long enough to experience the seasons, that might be something you should think about. Or if you aren’t, if you’ve never experienced, for example, if you live in San Diego, you’ve never experienced more than one season, maybe you should go somewhere and freeze your off, you know, and be like, okay, I get it. And then after a couple of weeks, you’re like, oh, this, this isn’t so bad. We have hot chocolate or hot coffee or fires. And I just think you’re, you have a, uh, considered point of view about, yeah. There’s, there’s like a, I’m waving my hands rhythmically as if to demonstrate a long slow there’s seasonalities to it. And I think that trying to explain that to adults is fricking hard. I was about to say it and she, like, we felt like, oh my God.

Craig (00:27:15):
And I I’m just wondering, are there ways, and I’m not going to, like, we have to figure how to tie this to movement. No, we don’t. It’s my show is whatever we want. I’m wondering, are there ways that we can use art? Because sometimes art really surprises the heck out of me. Are there ways that we can use art to like sneak this lesson into the adults? Because I really think they’re, they’re like a whole swath of people who are still in a position of influence. I was going to say I started, but it’s not that like, you know, there are school teachers or they are police, or they are educators or whatever. And like, if we can sneak this into those people so that they like become a font of sanity or, you know, stability or whatever, then that, that ripples. And it, I don’t know if you said it in the recording or not, but you had mentioned about trying to, I don’t want to be the person who does the change. I’d like to be the person who creates the ripples in the pond. Okay. So this is the part where Craig tries to find a question. You can just start talking over.

Lindsey (00:28:14):
I just wanted to say, first of all, the kids that are having meltdowns in stores, yes. This has happened to me occasionally, but I find that if you are prepared with food, drink comfort, and you’re not on your phone when you’re with your children in a store, shocker,

Craig (00:28:31):
Um, that’s crazy

Lindsey (00:28:33):
If you’re actually giving them attention because they’re humans and before you go in the place, you’re like, okay, everyone, we’re going in here for these three things. And I need you to help me find them. And these are on our list and this is what we’re doing. And when we get home, then we can do what you, like. I find it really cuts down on the amount of aggravation, but also how do we awaken adults to recognize and remember what it feels to be a child and move and create and have imaginations and be a free flowing human. That’s a really difficult question because I don’t think people want to hear anything that I just said,

Craig (00:29:16):
Well, the people listening, well, I mean, know who listens, but people who are listening, I think they’d be like, yeah, I’m down for that. And for me, I’m always trying to think, yeah. When him, when you and I are like, we’re preaching to the choir here. Right. Probably. Um, but so people who do par core are dependent on preventing. They know are these people who have thought about this, and if you haven’t please go think about it. People have thought about it. They know like, yes, somebody walks up and says, what are you doing? I don’t go like, shut up, get away from me. Like, you know, I, I, or like I have a right to be here. Like, no, we know to be like, oh, I’m not playing. And like, you, you act happy and joyful. And then most people they’re not ready for the message.

Craig (00:29:53):
So they disagree wacko and they, you know, walk away. Um, my favorite was the time I had a lady, I was balancing on a railing and I was 10 feet in the air. And she walked up to me and she said, get down from there. That’s dangerous. As if a, it had never occurred to me that I might fall. And I looked at it and I’m like, well, it was safer when you weren’t distracting me. And I’m like, nah, that wasn’t the right answer. So, so we all, like we know in like the movers know how to share the passion of movement, they should know. But I’m just wondering like how, like there has to be ways that we can, unlike the parent, who’s already having a bad day, dealing with kids, having a meltdown in the supermarket. Probably nothing we can do to help, you know, maybe other than it just

Lindsey (00:30:34):
Yeah, for snacks all the time. I’m like, Hey, I have extra snacks. Do either of you need a snack. Cause a lot of the times it’s the parents. Like you haven’t taken care of your own needs. You did not recognize that you also need drinks. Why did you take your kids to the store right after getting out of school when they haven’t had comfort time yet. And you were also shoving way too much stuff on your own plate before taking time to just like readjust to being together again. I mean, as far as like art and movement and sometimes like art comes in all forms and I think one of the most therapeutic and easy way to tap into this is literally have like five to 10 minutes of crazy dance time at your house with everyone where everyone has to like move as crazy as you can because everyone starts to giggle and no one can be angry when they’re giggling.

Lindsey (00:31:35):
And I think it’s something so easy that people just overlook. Like I’m feeling bad and I just start yelling and I’m like, I’m not a yeller. What am I doing? And then I will like step back and apologize. Like, I’m sorry, I’m feeling overwhelmed right now. I put way too much stuff on our schedule today. Like, how are you guys feeling? And they’re like, I don’t know, you’re yelling. And I’m like, okay, let’s go put, and I let them pick out a record and they always pick the craziest ones, but they’re always so fun. And we put them on and just randomly put a song on and we have a crazy dance party. And then, I mean, we have, uh, we had paint brushes outside for a while, like against a wall. And we just paint with water, like with our whole bodies and then it’s so satisfying and then it dries and it’s gone, it’s fine.

Lindsey (00:32:33):
And you can paint anything. And then it’s just gone the next minute. You’re like, oh, well that felt good. We try to painting music is a really good thing. So putting music on and then doing drawing or painting or artwork to illustrate what you’re listening to. It, it really works between like right and left brain. And it gets you thinking in a different way. It gets you out of your head and you have to focus on something other than yourself. And I think, I dunno, there’s so many… Making mud art. I mean, my kids are normally covered head to toe in mud and people don’t really associate nature with art, but like the art of making mud and even integrating chalk and wet chalk is the best. And then just smearing it all over your sidewalk. Like just getting dirty, I think is a therapeutic thing.

Craig (00:33:40):
When you said nature and I’m like, uh, cave paintings, like yeah. I’m thinking. Yeah. So art’s been around forever. Do you get, uh, uh, um, I know that you do it, so I’m gonna say, do you get enough opportunity to share your passion for, I don’t know, in your mind, what do you call what you’re doing?

Lindsey (00:33:57):
It’s a really hard time describing. I, I really, I was even thinking about this today. I’ve talked about a lot of, I really wanted to go into art therapy and it was a long process and I was already taking a, um, teaching certification course. And I was told that I was, I got into the program, but that I wasn’t allowed to be in both programs at the same time. And I’m like, well, what does that mean? Like I’m not allowed to, or I’m going to pay for this. So like, is it just because no, one’s done it before. So I went into teaching and then also got certified in art and I like went around them basically. And I, I really think what I’m doing with like gardening and nature, education and alternative education and basic life skills and an art all together is really just making a journey of healing with all of the components that are just so readily available. So I just feel like I’m making connections and I’m, I’m just on a path of healing and trying to spread knowledge,

Craig (00:35:22):
Lindsay Appleseed throne, she’s making a gesture, she’s got an apple seeds in her pockets. Do you recall, like where, where did this, where did it all start? Do you recall where it all started? Do you remember the, uh, Lindsay before this Lindsey?

Lindsey (00:35:35):
No, I actually about this today on my blog, right before coming over, I had posted like five seconds before I was here about Salice deja. It’s this? Um, it’s a nostalgia for like, it’s more than homesickness it’s as it’s a nostalgia for the place where your spirit rests. And, uh, I think that’s been my journey for like a really long time. My grandparents, my great-grandparents had, uh, a farm that was over a hundred acres. So I grew up wild and free and covered in mud and sticks in my hair and rolling down Hills. And it wasn’t a working farm anymore, but I think it held a lot of the qualities of a working farm. And then it was sold when I was 12 in an auction. And I think I’ve been trying to get back ever since.

Letter to your future self [36:39]

Chapter’s show notes…

Craig (00:36:38):
(chapter) So I have not read the blog post that you publish five seconds before coming up. Um, but I’m, I’m wondering I have too many, if you could like here, here’s a pretty like standardized question, but if you could write a letter to yourself and we’re going to put it away and you’re going to forget that you wrote in, and they’re going to give it back to you, like in 10 or 15 years or whatever, or 20 years, um, what would you put in a letter to yourself in the future?

Lindsey (00:37:11):
I mentally do this a lot. It’s not the same as writing the letter. I think that I would write to myself to continue moving forward and take less time to look backwards. I know that with the laws of attraction and growth, you need to remember certain things, but also learn from them and then take what you learn and, and go, I can’t drag. I should be talking to myself in the person of a letter. So (quote) Don’t let the weight of your memories and nostalgia drag you down because you won’t be able to make the movement that you need to underneath all this weight. Remember to take time to do the things that you enjoy because you enjoy them. And not because you think that the world needs to change and plant a seed every day. (/quote)

Craig (00:38:16):
Um, I’m like the lecture. How much of the soundscape? I mean, I do know, but th the Nate, my neighborhood keeps changing an hour ago or whatever. 45 minutes ago they were ripping the street up. Now the wind died and it got very quiet. So I love when I do get a chance to record outdoors, it has its own challenges, but it’s always nice. Um, any time we’ve, we’ve been talking about shared experiences and, and like being in nature. And when I, when I do these recordings and I get a chance to share a space with someone it’s always very different than, than if we do them online. Uh, I mean, like sometimes, like I, sorry, I can’t go all the way to Singapore to do one, you know, but so there’s the, you know, the opportunity, all right, that outweighs the last shared experience.

Craig (00:39:06):
But in this case, it’s always fun to get this chance to sit down with someone and, and like, you know, hear the train go by or whatever. Um, so I think your perspective is I hate to say it, but I think your perspective is unique. It’s too bad, which should be shared by more people. Right. And I think that maybe people will be moved to by hearing, you know, people listening, going. Yeah. I probably should read that letter to today. And next week, do you, uh,

Self care and making change [39:31]

Chapter’s show notes…

Craig (00:39:32):
(chapter) What self care practices, like aside from the obvious of like gardening and getting dirty, do you turn all, do you render your blog? Like, are you blogging as like, I, I started blogging as self medicine, but like, you know, why do you blog? Why do you, do you journal? Why do you write for yourself? What are your thoughts on what you do to care for Lindsay?

Lindsey (00:39:55):
Um, I think I took really long time now, caring for myself. I was caring for so many other people as a way to not think about the things that really needed to be addressed. I think that’s why a lot of people go into art to begin with. So I have been really thoughtful and meticulous about the things I’m doing. I need to get outside and have outdoor time. Of course, being in nature teacher, I had the privilege of having tick-borne illnesses and, and celiac. So, um, yeah, so I think it’s so easy to get caught up in everything and then forget that if you’re not working on your wellness, that you’ll have to take time to fix your illnesses. So, yes, I, I have been talking about starting like a small school or a nature program. And then January, I was like, you know what, I’m going to, I’m going to start by, by writing a blog and I’m going to do it every week and I’m going to do it for myself.

Lindsey (00:41:09):
And if one single person reads this and says, oh, I didn’t know that, or, oh, I didn’t re recognize that seeds make plants that we can eat, or I can garden with my children. And it’s not as hard as I thought, or what does authentic childhood mean anymore? Is it still a thing or is it a memory? Those things, they’re things that I think about all the time and things that I hope that just one other person I know thinks about. And so I am ultimately writing as a form of reflection so that I can grow and I can be not only a better person or a better mom or a better wife or a better friend or educator, but also, so I can think about my role in the community and how, and where I can make change. Cause while I’m writing, I always read over them again. And then again, and I am just working to make change and you can’t make change if you’re not reflecting.

Craig (00:42:15):
Amen. Once more louder for those in the back. I, I guess, uh, more of that, please. I think the, but there’s only like, yes, I find that I spend too much of those efforts of mine online and I go, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll just read a blog. I have an enormous blog. That’s a problem and I’ll do this and then I’ll have podcasts. Sometimes I really need to remember, you know, and I need to do today. I need to find a way to do that. Uh, you need to find a way to manifest that same spirit, but IRL next, you know, in the big room with a blue ceiling, that’s sometimes black. And for me sometimes that’s like, I’m heading for the beach, you know? And I just go like, you know, I woke up at if I went camping and it was, it was like, I woke up in the wee hours of the morning, you know, if you know that joke and it’s like, well, while I’m up, I’ll walk the 40 yards to the beach and just sit here for an hour.

Craig (00:43:11):
And I’m like, well, you know, I love Vonnegut’s if this isn’t nice. I don’t know what it is. And, and so sometimes for me, I have to actively remind myself to like, yeah, or instead of publishing a blog post Creek, you can go for a walk or you can invite your friends to join you, you know, on some sort of outdoor craziness or whatever. And I think that that’s a, a really like, like once you get your mind wrapped around, once you get your own mind wrapped around how important that is for yourself, you kind of lose sight of like how bad it is when you don’t have those practices and you see people, um, I’m going to say 30 years ago I saw people and I was like, ah, there’s something wrong with you. And I, you know, and now I’m like, now I know what’s wrong.

Craig (00:43:55):
And I was like, I still don’t know how to help you. I mean, it’s like the, when the, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear and I’m not a teacher and I don’t want to be a teacher, but I think that if we can share blood posts, if we can share conversations that don’t really have a point, you know, that like we’re recording it and then people can listen. And if it touches them great, if it doesn’t, while you’re not, you’ve already pressed up, like, okay, so that’s like, I’m, I’m picking up what you’re laying down. Okay.

Lindsey (00:44:22):
So I’ve noticed a lot as well with like a journey of healing. That again, with the laws of traction and with healing yourself, just for the purpose of leading a more fulfilling life, there’s less chances for depression and anxiety and getting caught up in other people’s things and, and feeling the wounds that are not yours to feel and healing the ones that are not yours to heal. And when you’re really working on, uh, a personal journey, if you are making those steps for positive impact and change people around you, whether or not they will admit, they start to feel those things. And, and as little bit at a time as I can do, I want to work on that. And of course I’m not a perfect person and I have bad days or lots of bad days, but I have taken time as well to say, like, what are the, what are the minimum basic things I need to do?

Lindsey (00:45:33):
I need to talk to a therapist once a month for an hour, or I need to, I’ve been volunteering at Rodale at their founders farm. And so I will just block out on my calendar, uh, one to four hours in the morning, one day a week, and then I’ll call them and I go over and I’m working with, for like, with pitchforks and shovels and slanting and harvesting, and I’m covered in dirt and I’m sweating like crazy. And it it’s free. And I don’t have to pair a therapist and it’s feels so good. I’m laughing with you. You know, not to say like, yes, I still do like to talk to a therapist cause she does, um, EFT. So she does tapping and she teaches you how to like calm your body. I really appreciate that. And I need to be reminded often, but working really, really hard and getting super sweaty and dirty with the intent to make sure that other people are eating healthy is, is so rewarding in so many ways.

Lindsey (00:46:47):
And I can tell when we went to the beach or we started school and we missed a few weeks, I I’m like, why am I so angry? Oh, I’m not doing something that I need to do. So, you know, people find time to do the things they want to do and the things that are important to them. And it’s just taking a moment for us to remember and recognize that where, where the, of being happy and healthy and we need to work on that. And, um, I think a lot of people just forget, they’re just stuck in this life of living in this life of existing. Instead of

Craig (00:47:31):
I like, I liked that the existing rather than living because I, for a long time I’ve heard and I’ve probably parroted it as well. Well, that’s hard to say parotid is the idea of like the Western consumerist lifestyle is a problem and it is, it’s not a good thing, but there’s, there’s like something more to it than that. It’s like the, it’s almost the consumptive aspect of it is an effect. And like, yeah, but there’s more like it’s not just stop buying stuff. It’s also changed the mindset that led to the buying of stuff. And I think the weird, the way you’re describing it is a much simpler, clear, like, yes, here’s what you could consider. Here’s what you could change left turn.

Human connection [48:16]

Chapter’s show notes…

Craig (00:48:16):
(chapter) Um, anything that was on your mind on your way over here, that you were like, oh, I hope we get to talk about,

Lindsey (00:48:22):
Um, I think we actually talked about some of them having to do with there’s this fine line and balance between being a person that wants to make change in environmental situations and in, um, earth practices, art education and, and personal human connection. And then remembering that you are doing all of your advertising on line, which is not, how do we make this connection with people without being sucked into this wormhole of Instagram and Facebook and, and doing a website and setting your SEOs and sending out email campaigns. I don’t want to do any of that. And, and I am just, I have, I have tried to reel back actually and say, okay, I’m going to post on Mondays. And Tuesdays, I put my block up on Thursday morning and then weekends are off limits for, for what I’m doing. Unless, I mean, at the weekends, I’m at the farmer’s market.

Lindsey (00:49:35):
And I talk to everyone there. So I, I really, really pride myself in, in human connection. I talk about what I’m doing in all aspects everywhere. So if I’m volunteering at Rodale or if I’m at the amaz arts commission, or if I’m working in the borough, or if I’m at juxta hub at their, um, art community center, that’s going in or any of the other good Jillian things that I do, somehow I talk about the other things. And I’ve been told that I’m a connector. Like you need to talk to this person, or this person has something that would really suit you. I am not sending people to virtual things. I want to send people to

Craig (00:50:20):
Right. One to one, draw a new line across the graph, the social graph.

Lindsey (00:50:25):
It’s really hard because my kids call me out on it all the time. And it’s so annoying to like, mom, what’s more important to you, me or your iPhone. And I’m like, stop it. Like, I literally am working for five minutes. This is my five minutes. And like, it’s already been four minutes and 52 seconds. So you have eight seconds to finish. And they’re like,

Craig (00:50:46):
I just did three kids.

Lindsey (00:50:49):
I’m adding five minutes to this. It’s hard when you’re, when you’re raising your children to be these nature children and they want to make change. And they do art and they work with the wood and they have, you know, they don’t have any toys with batteries and, and they’re barely on screens. And then they’re like, mom, you’re on screens. This is bad for your brain. And like,

Craig (00:51:15):
My brain’s old and I was a five. It doesn’t affect me anymore.

Lindsey (00:51:18):
Yeah. But it makes me say like, I don’t, I don’t want them to remember me with just a square in front of my face

Craig (00:51:25):
Going to, they they’re clearly doing it. Like, and that’s great because how awesome is it that, you know, your, your support group, your circle of family, is that much bigger. There’s that many more people who like, are, are aware enough of what you would like to be doing then say like, Hey, you know, you’re not on task.

Lindsey (00:51:42):
I know. I love, I love them for it. I do. I’m glad that they are. They keep me real.

Books [51:50]

Chapter’s show notes…

Craig (00:51:50):
(chapter) I’ll give you, I have looked through this, the hardware, I’ll give you a two for two completely different questions. Um, do you want to talk about books and tell me about books that you have read, which have like black mind expanding books that you’ve read. Do you want to talk about that or do you want to talk about superpowers?

Lindsey (00:52:16):

Craig (00:52:17):
Cause that’s, that’s how I roll.

Lindsey (00:52:19):
So, um, if I had a superpower, it would be my love of books. Uh

Craig (00:52:28):

Lindsey (00:52:29):
I probably have, uh, 5,000 books at my house and I’m not exaggerating, uh, Kirsten from let’s play books. And Tom from now on, on books can let you know that I am telling the truth. So I have shelves just for alternative education homeschooling and uh un-schooling and then I have shelves just for Rodale.

Craig (00:53:00):
Here’s the Rodale catalog,

Lindsey (00:53:01):
Composting, gardening, permaculture, sustainable gardening. And then also herbalism.

Craig (00:53:09):
Maybe we should unpack who Rodale is a little bit. If you’ve heard the word organic, you can thank Bob. Um, so that all comes from Rodale, uh, which is, uh, originally well, okay, so what was his dad’s name? Thank you. I can like, what was dad’s name? Um, who moved here from Brooklyn or New York city and bought, I don’t know if it was only property, but bought the property. It’s like right over here that became the Wildlands Conservancy and also

Lindsey (00:53:36):
The founder’s farm, which is on Cedar crest and mindsight and then 333 acres in Kutztown, which runs side by side trials in conventional and organic farming.

Craig (00:53:47):
I didn’t okay. Let’s just go all in didn’t quits town, just, they just announced.

Lindsey (00:53:53):
So they just announced that they’re doing a five year collaboration with Rodale and they will be offering a bachelor’s of science degree in regenerative organic practices with Kutztown. So there’ll be working together to implement a new, and I, I believe that this is the only,

Craig (00:54:14):
That’s what I was going to say. I think this is like yet another first that Rodale has managed to create privates hat invent. Um, yeah. Uh, so please call look up Rodale. Yeah, so many things we could say about Rodale, but

Lindsey (00:54:30):
I am on the J I Rodale leadership society. And I’m also a perennial donor as well as a, um, beloved volunteer

Craig (00:54:41):
Book. You’ve given most often to other people.

Lindsey (00:54:44):
Oh, well, it doesn’t have anything to do with nature. I give the book. Julian is a mermaid to everyone that needs a little culture in their life. It’s a beautifully illustrated book about a little boy who watches his grandmother, get ready for this. Um, I believe it’s the Coney island mermaid parade, but he watches her get ready. And, and she walks into her room to realize that he’s like dressing up in pearls and he thinks he’s going to get in trouble. And then she like, sorry, she just dresses him up. And he goes with them in this beautiful costume. I am an advocate for just self-expression in all forms. So it’s really important for me that children see that clothing is just clothing and children are human beings with all sorts of emotions and creativity and imagination, and it shouldn’t be squashed depending on their gender. So that is, uh, the book that I give to everyone,

Craig (00:55:47):
The largest book currently in your possession, either by pages or physical dimensions. Well,

Lindsey (00:55:55):
We just acquired the entire Hobbit and Lord of the rings as a single series book. So I’m going to say it’s eight inches thick and we just got that last weekend actually, but also the welcome to the museum series and a male Liam. And Botanica from planetarium. There’s like an entire set. They are probably the largest in size that I have. And they’re also beautifully illustrated about they’re there for children, but they’re really also for adults. There’ll be,

Craig (00:56:39):
Yeah, since you’re hitting them out of the park book, which you most want, but you can’t actually get a hold of, let’s see how bad your Booker file problem really is.

Lindsey (00:56:53):
I’m going to say that over the last two years, since the pandemic started, I decided that any book that I wanted, that I would have

Craig (00:57:04):
Posted so far, you haven’t been stumped.

Lindsey (00:57:05):
So, um, I will Gara, I might not be saying that right. It’s a native American book on native plant species to every region and it’s illustrated. It tells you the, the medicinal value, um, how to use the plant, how to grow it, how to cultivate. Um, I had that in my wishlist for like two years and it was out of stock and I just received it like a month or so ago. So I think it’s, I w

Craig (00:57:39):
A G a Y G a a R

Lindsey (00:57:41):

Craig (00:57:43):
I’m not, I’m not on a mission. I’m looking over somebody’s shoulder at a computer screen, that’s it?

Lindsey (00:57:48):
Yeah. I’ve been stocking this book for a really long time. And where’d you first hear

Craig (00:57:53):
Of it?

Lindsey (00:57:56):
I’m sure that, um, Facebook targeted me in some type of ad. Am I allowed to say that on there?

Craig (00:58:02):
And you’re just like, oh, Hey, the internet I do

Lindsey (00:58:05):
Facebook. I, I am actually not sure there is a probability. It’s more probable that I came across it doing, listening to, or interacting or participating in over 200 and professional development hours I’ve done in the last year or two.

Craig (00:58:26):
You should read this book. Yes.

Lindsey (00:58:28):
It’s very likely that that is really what happened. But if we’re going to be honest here, there’s also a small possibility that a small ad for it popped up on something that I was looking at at one time or another.

Craig (00:58:43):
I think there’s something to be said for the power tool that the internet, the dream of the internet can be. And the, like, there, it can, the artificial engines, it can sift through things like it can make connections that a human mind can’t you can’t sift through it all. So there’s something to be said for, you know, yes. Every once in awhile, you know, something good comes out of it, but that doesn’t mean that in general, it’s all good.

Lindsey (00:59:09):
Yes. You don’t need all of those coasters or different types of vacuum cleaners. Just stick with what you know, it’s fine.

Billboard for the world [59:21]

Chapter’s show notes…

Craig (00:59:20):
(chapter) What did let’s see? My problem is I’ve listened to so many different conversations that I have millions of questions, and I want to ask you all of them, but I’m also not a big fan of rapid fire. Like, you know, um, I’m more interested in like, how does Lindsay think, or what does Lindsay want to talk about? Or what do you want to share? Um, but sometimes from tiny seeds

Lindsey (00:59:40):
Spring, um, if you could have a billboard, this is a famous question. You can do the billboard question. No, you’ve never done this. I mean, you’ve heard the question though, right? You’ve heard, oh, sorry. This is a classic Tim Ferriss. If you could have a real billboard, one billboard anywhere in the world, don’t worry about languages. What would you put on the billboard? I, I just, I really want to say stopping a Dick, but I think that if, if I had a billboard, Yeah. Um, I think that I I’d want to say it in a positive way. So just like plant seeds of change would be my billboard and I would put it right in front of the white house.

Craig (01:00:26):
You need to look out the windows. I, but I think your instinct to like, oh, I know what to do. All right. How do I make that positive or palatable? I think that if, if more people cultivated. I’m not trying to be punny, cultivated. That instinct that’d be better. Like I just spent like four hours driving, not today, but recently, and as I’m driving, I’m generally not in a hurry because where I don’t like what? Okay, so I’m just driving along. So I have hate this thing on cargo, cruise control, which nobody apparently uses anymore. Although I I’ve learned that I attract Teslas. Do you know why? Because they have adaptive cruise control. So whoever was driving, they set their cruise control. They roll up on me, you know, going a mile an hour faster than the Tesla automatically spaces. So it’s like regularly. Now I look in the rear view mirror and as a Tesla following me, I’m like, well, that’s weird.

Craig (01:01:18):
Um, but anyway, so I’m often driving on cruise control, unlike everybody else, I get to the accidents and the traffic jams just like everybody else. Right. And as people get mad and go around me, I keep thinking, what can I put on the bumper on the back of my it’s a little like mini miniature van? What can I put on the bumper that would be helpful, right? Because I can put lots of things to Barbara, you know? Like, are you gonna buy me dinner first? Like, there’s lots of things that could put on the bumper. And the one thing that I like, like, it needs to be something like, don’t you think you were already this angry before you got stuck behind me? Like, I want to like riff off that idea. Like, I wanna put on a billboard that says like, maybe you were already this upset before you read the stupid billboard. Like, I always feel like there should be some way to, to like turn my energy into something that would actually help. And you have put a lot of thought into that. So you’re I like that your billboard was like that.

Lindsey (01:02:16):
Well, now I was thinking about a bumper sticker. We used to play this game, but our bumper stickers were not normally positive. Well, they were puns. I love wordplay. So they would say something, but really, really mean what you think they mean. I can’t think of any, right.

Craig (01:02:38):

Lindsey (01:02:38):
Think I see your point. I’m trying to keep it clean. I think

Craig (01:02:42):
It’s all good. I’m not pausing to fish. I’m just pausing to think.

Art [1:02:47]

Chapter’s show notes…

Craig (01:02:47):
(chapter) I’m feeling like playing on the art thread some more. What’s the most amazing outdoor art installation you’ve seen recently.

Lindsey (01:03:00):
I haven’t had the opportunities seeing a lot of outdoor installations recently. I have, however, just finished a 158 foot mural at community park and a mass. But I think that the most amazing outdoor art installation I saw was in Leon France in 2001. And there were, it was a collection and you had to find a map and it was a scavenger hunt through the city. So you would find a map and then go to one and then it would give you clues and you’d like go to the other. And it was a multisensory experience. So there were some that they were rooms that had a ceiling, but, uh, you walked on the floor and every tile was a different color and made a different sound. And if you remembered, you could change your pace and, and how are you moving to make different songs? And then, uh, this other one was this, uh, this explosion of papers that were folded and crumbled in all different ways. And at first you’re like, what is going on with this trash, but the way that you had to move around it to interact and see it was, um, it was very moving. It instilled this movement in me that just stirred me in a way. It wasn’t expecting,

Craig (01:04:35):
I’m now wondering if interactive art might be a gateway that people would be more interested in approaching, not necessarily with like listening, but I’m like, yeah, like, I mean, I don’t know if I’m going to use the word simple. I don’t mean that murals are easy to make, but I still don’t know if a simple mural will be enough to do it. But in other episodes, I’ve talked to people who talk about movement, snacks, or putting in like little miniature, bronze sculptures. And there’s like a, you know, a find them trail and, and these kinds of things and the parents, yeah. The parents get like sucked into the kids are like, oh, that’s cool. And the kid’s like, yeah, whatever, they dive into it because it’s play. And then the parents get drawn into the, at the end. You’re like, wow. You know, mom, I’m tired and sore. And that was fun. And like, to me, that’s art almost like I’m not gorilla art, but like there’s a subtext or as a, what do you call that? I hidden purpose or, yeah.

Lindsey (01:05:32):
So they’re doing, um, we were supposed to do this last year, uh, the Mesa arts commission in collaboration with juxta hub, where we were going to have a virtual art scavenger hunt through a mass where there would be markers. And then you would have to download an app and a sculpt like outdoor installation art that was virtual would pop up on your screen. And then you could look at it from different angles and go around town. It obviously never occurred. We’re still working on doing some things, but juxta hub does have some virtual reality components and things that they’re working on. And so, I mean, if that’s something that people think would be interesting, I definitely want to try to look into that. Cause I want to raise awareness for environmental art, whether it is permanent or even virtual or a collaboration or mix of both just getting people outside, working in nature and our, and, and learning and interacting with people is just so pivotal right now. I think it’s just needed in, in such a deep way.

Craig (01:06:53):
Yeah. I would agree. Absolutely. That, yeah, that sounds, I’m glad we got to talk a little bit about art.

Movers Mindset [1:07:01]

Chapter’s show notes…

Craig (01:07:01):
(chapter) Here’s the question. I don’t think I’ve ever asked anybody in the high cost. What is movers mindset like when you, you know, so we’re like, Hey Lindsay, you want to do a bucket? It’s like, just like, what, who, like what, what are your thoughts on why, what the what’s going on with? What are we trying to do? What’s the point? What does it mean?

Lindsey (01:07:18):
Well, I got to look through a lot of the titles of the podcasts that you’ve done. And I was just very intrigued. I just thought this is something that really sparks something inside me, like creating movement in so many ways. And I noticed, you know, there is a lot of par core and yoga and mindfulness, and I saw one that was working for art as a way of therapy and overcoming depression and anxiety I believe was, was the one I, I want to learn more about, about your,

Craig (01:07:57):
I wasn’t fishing for that, but I know

Lindsey (01:07:58):
I really do want to learn more. I, I think that, I think it’s a really important thing to offer a platform for people to talk about change and movement in different ways and not just always equate movement with a physical action and how it movement really takes place. I think movement needs to start in your heart. So movement without heart is just,

Craig (01:08:30):
Yeah. I want to say Calla static, searches, machinations or something.

Lindsey (01:08:35):
I think having this platform for podcasting about creating change and making small steps to greatness is, is necessary for where we are as humans right now.

Craig (01:08:52):
Yeah. I like the idea of this is really important, not just in this particular show, but like a general that comes up a lot when I talk to people and it’s like, yeah, but you’re working on it. Like Wendy’s working on it. There’s just 103 other people I’ve talked to who, whether they realize it or not are working on it. And I’m like, I didn’t, you know, like I didn’t, you did all that on your own. I didn’t, I had nothing to do with you. And there’s 103 people that were like, they did it on their own. So every time I talk to someone I’m always, um, I want to say my faith in humanity is restored, but like, there’s a little bit of like, oh, good, okay. I met yet another awesome human being. Who’s got their head on straight and who was out there either fighting the good fight or just having a fun, old time, you know, and that’s contagious.

Craig (01:09:38):
So I think that as much as, yes, it’s important that, you know, I give people a platform with this project. Um, it’s also just as much an excuse for me to just like, anybody will show up. If I say, oh, we’re recording a podcast. Like, oh, okay. I’m down for that. No clue what’s going on. And I was like, yes, I’ll, I’ll sit down and have a conversation. So I just think it’s, you’re, you’re spot on though with my, um, my ideas about movement, doesn’t have to just be physical. There is human beings move. That’s definitely, if you had to get a short set of words, they move and that’s, if they can’t move things, get ugly. Um, and there’s something about it. That’s innate. Um, I think it’s physiologically necessary. Um, aside from the simple, like, yes, that’s how your lymphatic system works. If you don’t move, it doesn’t move.

Craig (01:10:28):
Um, but just at a cerebral level, we really need the tactile input. We need to the visceral sensations, we need all that stuff. Um, but I think the, the movers listening, all two of them and the movers listening, they know that. Um, and they’re always all the people that I talked to. I mean, like without exception, everybody that I’ve talked to has always been like, yeah, how do I share whatever their, whatever their personal passion was. They always wanted to share it more. Um, so yeah. Cool. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on where mindset. I almost feel like I should, there should be a new question, which is, you know, describe your movers mindset, but then that forces people into my, you know, my crazy shake box. Cool.

3 words [1:11:08]

Chapter’s show notes…

Craig (01:11:08):
(chapter,highlight)All right. I think, um, I don’t know that I have to say since I get bought the, I know I’m laughing cause we, before we pressed record, I always warned me, like, can I ask this question at the end?

Craig (01:11:20):
You’re going to forget now she’s had enough warning. She’s like, I haven’t forgotten. What I was going to say is I’m always, I always had the urge to, like, I feel like I have to find a way to wrap up this conversation into a nice bundle so that people out there going to take away and I’m like, no, actually I don’t, don’t have to do that. I can just say, and of course the final question, three words to describe your practice.

Lindsey (01:11:41):
Plant a seed. I think that’s just what I want to say.

Craig (01:11:46):
Terrific. As I often say, um, thank you, Lindsey, for taking the time for coming over for doing all that. You’re doing both with your kids, but in education and in the Emmaus arts council, I may, this is a little backwards sometimes and we do need more, more people working hard to drag us into the 20th century. Cool. Thanks. It’s been a pleasure. Thank you so much. (/highlight)