Adam: I watched it so many times and practiced all of the exercises for what muscles needed to get stronger, that you have this moment where you’re just like, “Oh, shit, that makes sense.” I think had the same thing with like guitar, too, when I sort of learned how to tap like Van Halen.
Craig: Yeah, yeah.
Adam: I learned how to do that. It made no sense for like a year, and then one day I was just like, I don’t know, my fingers just understood it and I tapped for 12 hours straight. That’s what I did with every flip that I learned. When I first did my back flip, I did it every day for two weeks.
Craig: Hello, I’m Craig Constantine. Welcome to The Movers Mindset Podcast, where I talk with movement enthusiasts to learn who they are, what they do, and why they do it. This is episode number 87, Adam Echa: Training, Travel, and Mindfulness. At first glance, Adam Echa is a jack of all trades, but all of his practices and interests are all connected. He shares the role of music in his life, his interest in photography, and his experiences riding bicycle deliveries in New York City. Adam discusses his Parkour training, flips, cross-training, and filming. He unpacks his personal mindfulness practices and reflects on where and why he wants to travel.
Craig: Adam Echa is an athlete, musician, videographer, and overall creative human. As an athlete and a coach, he works to balance his training and develop in both areas. In addition to Parkour, Adam plays guitar, writes music, and occasionally performs. For more information on this episode, go to moversmindset.com/87. Thanks for listening.
Craig: I apologize for the wind noise. We are in beautiful Bayonne, New Jersey. I don’t often get a chance to sit outside in a park, so I don’t mind the wind and the noise and the people. Somebody’s going to walk up and photobomb us for sure. It’s going to happen, so let’s just remain cool. My first question for you is, why do you only perform occasionally?
Adam: It took a long time to figure out what direction I wanted to go with movement and music. I guess music was more like therapy and movement I can see going like multiple areas, like with work and for fun and for play and for community, meeting new friends. Music was super personal, so every time I had to do, I didn’t have to, but sometimes I didn’t feel like I had to because I felt like it was wasted energy that I put into years of playing guitar. If I have to go an open mic to express something, it’s like super personal. One of my songs took a year to write, so if it takes… Not on purpose, just getting the words and the guitar synced in a way that makes sense and is still conveying the same emotion. It takes a lot of time.
Adam: When I’m playing, there’s a full story about it. Not just like this person that I’m talking about, like a breakup or something like that. It’s usually not about them. It’s about how I felt and I overcame that emotion. Usually, I have to start at the beginning of how I felt.
Adam: Not even about them-
Craig: Just to capture the journey.
Adam: … it’s just like how I felt. Yeah, to explain. One song lyric is like, “Neurons fire like lightning bugs in a cave.” That’s the beginning, that’s the magic. That’s actually more light-hearted that one. It doesn’t get me as nervous and in the feels or whatever, but when I’m playing open mic nights, people get in my brain a little bit and it’s kind of open-ended, too. Even how I write the lyrics is like you can have your own little story in there, you know? I [crosstalk 00:03:53] even forget my own story and make a new one sometimes when the song’s like six years old or something like that. I definitely make a new story when I’m in there.
Adam: After I’m done playing, I go outside and I don’t want to talk to nobody. I don’t get before show jitters, I get aftershow jitters. It’s so weird. Am I allowed to curse?
Craig: My guess is that that’s not weird. I bet that’s probably a thing. I’m not that type of… Here he says, “I’m not really a performer,” sitting in front of a video camera recording my voice. Oh, I’m so [crosstalk 00:04:22]-
Adam: I’m definitely a performer. When I get in there, I start talking, but I don’t like to tell people that because I know my ego, so I have to like put myself in check constantly, or else I’ll have a gigantic head about something I do.
Something people get wrong [4:35]
Craig: I wouldn’t have said that you have… All right, so you mentioned ego, is there something that you would say that you think other people get wrong about you?
Adam: Yeah, all of the time. I think… Yeah, all of the time. When I was heavy into yoga, which really helped me with my wrist and my ankle, but it also helped with mindfulness because like right now, they’re passing by. I’m going to look at them a little bit.
Craig: Oh yeah. A lot of times I’ve recorded outdoors, but [crosstalk 00:05:03] people just strolling by is very different.
Adam: Yeah. I’ll be like, “Hey.” They’re like, “What’s up? How’s it going?” “Oh, right, I’m in an interview.” I needed to work on my mindfulness, but also understanding and listening to my own emotions. I was talking about ego, right?
Craig: What do people get wrong about you?
Adam: Yeah, people get wrong about me. I will go off.
Craig: No, no. It’s not your fault. I’ll let you collect your thoughts for a second. I’ll take the conversation baton for a moment.
Craig: It’s one thing to sit and have a really good conversation with someone in a private space, which I bet you’ve experienced both in like after performing, but also-
Craig: … like Parkour is notorious or well-known for those like private, “Let’s go get a meal.” Sitting in a park with an additional person off-camera like looking at us and taking notes and people wandering around, it’s difficult for you and I to create the same kind of bubble as it would be in many other places.
Craig: Something people get wrong about you?
Adam: Yeah, I hear you.
Craig: You can also say, "Pass [crosstalk 00:06:07]-
Craig: … “go to something else.”
Adam: I love being an open book. I love being able to share every aspect of myself if someone asks. If they don’t ask, I will not say anything. I try to.
Craig: That’s such an interesting observation.
Adam: I overshare the second you ask. It’s like, “Well, here we go.” No, just so I don’t go too far off talking about yoga. “Hi, I’m a yogi. My name’s Adam.” Right there, they see, “Oh, what’s up Gandhi. How’s it going?” Then, I take like a swig of whiskey and have like a cigarette. Then, they’re like, “Well, where the fuck did that come from?” Excuse my language, but, “Where did that come from, Adam?” I’m like, “Oh, I didn’t say I was perfect. I said I’m a yogi.”
Craig: Yogi means I practice yoga.
Adam: Yes, it means I practice yoga.
Craig: Practice yoga.
Adam: Yeah, and even when I’m practicing yoga, I’m practicing someone else’s yoga. I still have to figure out my own yoga. When teachers are teaching yoga, they’re teaching you their yoga. You still have to find it for yourself. I don’t care how many Tao Dogs you do. If you’re not like practicing your own yoga, you’re not going to get there.
Adam: Anyways, my ego wants to attach to like yoga and be like that guru, so I get super mad at myself whenever I make little mistakes. For example, smoking a cigarette, I don’t condone that, but occasionally I do go back in that rabbit hole and I dig myself back up. People assume, well, not everyone. I have a lot of friends that are patient and lovely, ask questions, you know?
Craig: Yeah, who actually know you well and that wouldn’t get this wrong about you, right?
Adam: Yeah, but at face value, or with Parkour, I’m on rooftops all of the time. That’s just my life. I’m Batman. Do I look like [crosstalk 00:07:41]-
Craig: On rooftops, though?
Adam: … I mean, I like it when it’s convenient and I don’t like it when it’s not convenient, but that’s like my own ego. It turns on and off, but I do like being true to why I do something. Everyone wants to be seen how they see themselves, even though that’s not the case all of the time, especially with me. That’s not always going to be the same. That’s fine.
Music vs Parkour [8:04]
Craig: Do you find that your… When I asked you about performing, you were kind of describing your experience of sharing your music. You touched a little bit on your experience of creating it, but I think you went to an interesting point which I had never thought about before, which is sharing the music, the doing of the music, is very exhausting for you. I think the average person would expect that the doing of the Parkour would be the exhausting part, right? It seems-
Adam: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Craig: … like people who have done it are doing to go, “Yeah, strumming a guitar is not easy, but like you’re just sitting on a stage with a guitar. How hard can that be?” I’ve seen some really cool lines at like Battery Park and I’m like, “I’ve been on that wall and like, ‘No.’” Clearly, as I would have guessed, the Parkour is restorative for you, that overt external activity. I’m wondering, do you agree? Have you ever thought about that before? About how these two practices, the sharing of your music and the sharing of your Parkour, how these are very yin and yang?
Adam: Oh yeah. The Parkour, I don’t think of anything. I’m totally in that moment and present, and especially when creating a line, you feel the split second you lose attention. Where like if I’m playing music, it’s like a dream. It’s like a dream state. You know, when I’m playing, I see colors in my head. I’m totally dream state and it’s hard for me to get into the flow right away, but once I start playing and I’m like 20 seconds into a song, I swear it just passes. I feel like a different person a little bit, like I make certain faces and stuff like that, but I feel like my truest [crosstalk 00:09:47]-
Craig: You should see the faces I make before I fall.
Adam: Yeah. I actually have no expression when I fall. It’s so weird. I go… I don’t even yell. I’m just like [crosstalk 00:09:55]-
Craig: Well, I don’t normally yell. Sometimes I’ll mutter mistakes have been made.
Adam: Yeah [crosstalk 00:10:00] mistakes. “Man, here we go.” I don’t know, Parkour is free, it’s totally freeing and you know when you’re not present because your body tells you. It’s like, "Whoa-
Adam: … “what are you doing? Stop.”
Craig: That’s I think one of the most, well, maybe not the most, one of the very powerful features of it is that it’s truthful, like you’re-
Craig: … not going to hide from this shinjury.
Adam: Yeah. No, not at all. I haven’t a shinjury in a long time.
Craig: Oh, I’m sorry. I hope I didn’t just jinx it, like-
Adam: No, no. It’ll be fine [crosstalk 00:10:27] just about learned my lesson, I think.
Bicycle and delivery riding [10:32]
Craig: Yeah, we don’t want you to have any injuries before you move. What people can’t see is I’m looking at your bicycle.
Adam: It’s beautiful, right? That [crosstalk 00:10:37] color?
Craig: Yeah. I’m like… Let’s see. I’m a guy. I see in 16 colors. That’s teal.
Adam: Yes, it is teal. Some other color is like, “Actually.”
Craig: Yeah, and I’m debating telling… That’s a steel frame, isn’t it?
Adam: Yeah. That bike is not ideal. I think if it was lighter [crosstalk 00:10:55] that’d be great.
Craig: I wasn’t going to say anything derogatory about the bike, I’m just having a flashback to a steel-
Adam: I’m pretty sure it’s steel, yeah.
Craig: … Schwinn bike that I think had the same geometry as that, although mine wasn’t a fixe one, there’s a great story about that which we’re not going to tell today, but [crosstalk 00:11:06] what I was going to say is because I think there’s something interesting here. You’re like, “Where the heck is Craig going?” Yeah, I have ADHD, squirrel.
Adam: Perfect. Me, too.
Craig: Why a fixie?
Adam: Oh, control. I don’t trust brakes. I like having as much control as possible. I use the brakes if I have to, but I use my feet for everything. I feel the bike the whole entire time. It’s like, I guess, people that drive stick, you know? Or old cars that you could actually-
Craig: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Adam: … feel the gears when you’re cranking it.
Craig: Yeah, drive by the seat of your pants, yeah.
Adam: Yeah, it’s great. Is that the thing people say for cars? Driving by-
Adam: … the seat of your pants?
Craig: … flying by the seat of your pants, driving by the seat of your pants.
Adam: Oh, I see.
Craig: What I’m noticing, I’m a bit of a bike geek. I’m like a Parkour poser, but I’m also like a bike poser. I know enough to be dangerous-
Adam: We’re all posers.
Craig: … and [crosstalk 00:11:51]. Oh, you, too, have problems with imposter syndrome? Oh, good, I thought it was just me.
Adam: Oh, I have super imposter syndrome.
Craig: I know that you have, what do they call it? Platform pedals on your bike?
Adam: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Craig: I love that. I have a high-end carbon fiber mountain bike-
Adam: That’s what I want [crosstalk 00:12:09]-
Craig: … with a [crosstalk 00:12:09] hard tail, like-
Craig: … no suspension.
Craig: It’s so light it’s embarrassing. I pick up the bike and I’m like, “Well, there are no excuses on this part of the equation, Craig.” I put cheap ass, old school platform pedals on it.
Adam: Yeah, I wanted to get the animal straps because I had it on my other bike, but this bike, I couldn’t go it. First of all, it felt fine already, but the animal straps on my other bike was all black, so I just like would slide my foot in. It wasn’t like the weird metal clip ones because those I break all of the time, but it was like the animal, I don’t know, just the Velcro was amazing. My foot would fit right in. I can adjust it all I want and it felt like now I was even more attached to the bike.
Craig: That’s what I was going to say.
Craig: Wait, you’re telling me you were interested in being [inaudible 00:12:54] the bike and the frame. You’re interested in the control that the fixie… If people aren’t biking or head people, fixie means when the wheel goes around, the pedals go around.
Craig: There’s no free wheel. It’s like you pedal faster, you go faster. The bike rolls faster, your legs go faster. As you mentioned, control, but yet you have platforms on there, which I thought was neat.
Adam: Like, I think [crosstalk 00:13:14]-
Craig: Oh yeah.
Adam: I like the aesthetic of it.
Craig: Yeah. I like it right away. I love that you have a great, big, comfy seat on it, too.
Adam: Oh, that’s my brother. I would have had a really terrible one, and that feels awful, but my brother was like… yeah, Silas come through. We share that bike, so I fix it up, and he just-
Craig: He just fixes it down?
Adam: Yeah, so all of those things. Yes. Yeah, I did fixie like for two years in New York City, like delivery.
Craig: That’s what I was going to say. Did you ride that bike in New York City?
Adam: Yeah, I did two years delivery, two winters. It’s awesome. One time I [crosstalk 00:13:44]-
Craig: That’s the best lie I have ever seen. Deliveries, awesome.
Adam: I swear it’s true. No, it is awesome. I read like two books on the job, just-
Adam: … delivery-
Adam: … read-
Craig: While [crosstalk 00:13:56]-
Adam: … deliver-
Craig: Like reading the book?
Adam: Delivery, read.
Craig: Oh, okay. Delivery, read, delivery, read-
Adam: Yeah, yeah.
Craig: … not [crosstalk 00:14:00]-
Adam: No, not while riding.
Adam: Honestly, that’s not as impressive as a Bounty. You know what Bounty is? The paper towels?
Adam: A roll of like a lot. I put that on my handle bars. I had one hand on it. I was looking at where my delivery was going with my other hand-
Craig: The other hand-
Adam: … on-
Craig: … oh right, because you’d be able to kind of steer the bike a little bit [crosstalk 00:14:17]-
Adam: … yeah, on Broadway [crosstalk 00:14:18] the opposite [crosstalk 00:14:19]-
Craig: … I’ll fix it-
Adam: … direction-
Craig: … riding the wrong way [crosstalk 00:14:20]-
Adam: … the actual traffic.
Craig: You know, it’s people like you that give drivers like me hemorrhages.
Adam: Oh, and it was never my fault if I fell off my bike. Someone doored me and there was a piece of string once that was attached to a fire hydrant and electric cable. Imagine a thin nylon string that’s flowing out into the street in New York City-
Craig: A fishing line.
Adam: … yeah, fishing line, and it just catches my bike and like, “What’s happening?” I fly off of it and this is the same year I learned how to do pop rolls, so-
Craig: Right then and there-
Adam: … every single accident-
Craig: … you learned to do a pop roll.
Adam: … yeah. I go like this and it’s like a-
Craig: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Adam: … a C-shape with your arms, pop off your shoulders. Every time like-
Craig: Yeah, get off the ground, get back on your feet.
Adam: … yeah, back on your feet, and I always had like a small scratch and all bones and joints totally fine. Everything in my bag, totally fine. Happened twice, when I got doored and the fishing line.
Craig: Oh, that’s rough.
Adam: Both times I was fine. Both times were fine, enunciation. I don’t ride like that anymore, don’t worry. I’m more cautious.
Adam: I [crosstalk 00:15:27]-
Craig: You look pretty chill, like you came in around the park. I was like, “Oh, that’s Adam.” I could just-
Craig: … you’re pretty chill.
Adam: No falls since then. No bad falls since [crosstalk 00:15:37] bad falls. Those are kind of spooky. That’s another thing about fixie. If you have too much weight on the back pedal and it’s not fixed, there’s no give. The pedals just like spin and-
Craig: Yeah, you can fall.
Adam: … yeah. A fixie, I could actually jump off of it and ditch it without worrying about the pedals swinging around and hitting me in the shins. It’s just, “Goodbye.” It makes no sense that I keep listening to it, but I’m telling you, it feels super.
Craig: Oh, it makes sense to me. I get it because actually I saw you jump off it and I kind of was thinking it was a fixie. I wasn’t paying close attention, and then you jumped off and I was like, “Oh, that’s a fixie.” You can’t jump off the backstroke.
Adam: You can’t do that. Nope, not at all.
Craig: Yeah, not even with coaster brakes, and everybody’s going, “What? It turned into a bicycle podcast.” That’s right. I interview movement enthusiasts to find out-
Craig: … who they are-
Adam: … movement-
Craig: … what they do, and why they do it.
Adam: … and more movement.
Instagram intentions [16:22]
Craig: One of the things I do before I interview people is lurk the shit out of everything on the internet and there isn’t a lot-
Craig: … about you, which I kind of want to applaud. You appear to not have been completely been sucked in my social media. Mad props, but what I’m wondering is, I was going to say, do you use your Instagram account intentionally? Duh, Craig, like you have to push the button. Do you have an overall intention for what you’re doing on Instagram.
Adam: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Craig: No is a completely legitimate answer.
Adam: Yeah. My Parkour Instagram, no. Not at all.
Craig: I noticed you have a personal one. I know I mentioned you have two. You have a personal one-
Craig: … and then you have your photography one, and the photography one looked like either you’ve just started it or you haven’t been very prolific. I’m not sure which.
Adam: I deleted everything at the beginning of COVID.
Craig: Oh. Why?
Adam: I sold my old camera. I got a new camera. There were some projects that didn’t speak for me anymore and there were some that did speak for me, but it feels really good when I throw away a bunch of stuff in my room, like-
Craig: Yeah, me, too.
Adam: … I really try to like cater everything in my life to mindfulness because my attention span is ridiculous. I empty out my room, but also with my photography, I didn’t want people to hire me for something that I was not anymore. I was like, “Wait, also, who am I?” I deleted everything. I was like, “I don’t even know if I want to do that anymore, so let me try and take this and start all over and figure out what I really want to do.” Then, I fell back in love with black and white, so now I’m just doing black and white. I want to do something a little bit off the normal path and stick with black and white for now. I think it’s [crosstalk 00:18:04]-
Craig: It all rebooted.
Adam: … that’s the only page that I do care about how it looks, but I’m not super concerned about advertising myself to like who wants my photography right now. I’m not trying to figure out who my audience is. I just want to keep doing what I’m doing and hope that someone comes along is like, "That looks great. I want you for you and not for-
Craig: Yeah, “Come work with me on this project.”
Adam: … yeah. It does look a little bit like, I guess… no, how do you say like-
Craig: Spartan? Sparse?
Craig: I knew that that was the word you were looking for. I wouldn’t say it looks sparse. Sometimes I see things that look like that and I’m like… My first thought was the difference between your personal one and the photography one. I’m like, “There’s a difference here,” and it looked to me like, “Well, Adam’s not screwing around on this one.” Like, this is-
Adam: Yeah, this one’s serious.
Craig: … like the photos are different and your personal one is a lot of lines and movement, which, by the way, mad props.
Adam: Thank you.
Craig: Your photography one is really clearly your perspective on things. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to say that because perspective’s a horrible [inaudible 00:19:08].
Adam: How dare you?
Craig: I know, I know. I love language, and then I’m talking to myself.
Adam: Yeah. No, I hear you.
Craig: I know you can.
Adam: Oh, it’s in there.
Craig: You notice how like at this point it’s not even weird anymore, right? It’s just-
Filming and movement mechanics [19:25]
Craig: … totally like two people. Oh, there’s so many things to ask. Was there anything that you were thinking on your way over here that you wanted to make sure we got to?
Adam: I was just thinking about getting here.
Craig: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for [crosstalk 00:19:37] here. We appreciate when people think about that.
Adam: Yeah. I don’t know. When it comes to… I wanted to actually talk more about my Parkour page. I think I love the filming aspect of Parkour, like by yourself, just filming the line. I’m getting used to having my friend Mike film for me, but then everyone got their jobs back, so Mike is busy. I was like, "Damn, it was really, really cool having someone that’s just down all the time-
Craig: Getting in the zone.
Adam: … “to film you and get creative with you.” I think I have more fun figuring out how I fit in the frame doing movement than like going from point A to point B. For example, there’s one tripod shot where it’s just one wall and that’s it. I was trying to think of what movement made the most sense for this shot, so, I don’t know, I guess give the movement more character for that angle.
Adam: For example, so I’m doing a jump towards the camera. It’s going to look small. How do I explain this? I don’t know. I like the flailing of legs in and out of the frame and then coming back in, so the second angle out, I just hope right back in immediately. I don’t know. I feel like if I was just doing that, all of those movements, I probably would have had less fun than if I was fake filming it.
Craig: Also thinking about filming it.
Craig: Do you think what you enjoy about it is the thinking about the filming it? Or the having the finished artifact when you’re done?
Adam: Oh, definitely the finished artifact. I like Jackie Chan a lot. I want to do more stuff where-
Craig: Oh, well, anybody that doesn’t like Jackie Chan, press stop now, like-
Adam: Yeah, for reals. It’s, “Goodbye.” Like-
Craig: Yeah, I’ll press stop for you.
Adam: … everything’s wide angle shots and like the way… I don’t know, the way it’s all filmed is great. It’s not like a bunch of zoom-in cuts of like an arm flying through the air and then someone getting hit in the face in slow motion. It’s like-
Craig: Yeah, I mean, there’s a time and place for that stuff, but-
Adam: … yeah.
Craig: … no, I’m not going to say, “Your stuff reminds me of Jackie Chan,” because that would be [crosstalk 00:21:32]-
Adam: No, but I do like [crosstalk 00:21:33] little one-shot… like not a lot of cuts.
Craig: Yeah, you’re cinematic aesthetic.
Adam: Yeah, I’m not saying I’m going for that look, I just appreciate like the tripod shots or just wide angle shots where a lot is happening in the frame and you fill it up with the movement, too, how you move through it. I think it’s fun because of Jackie Chan. I don’t think I can film like that without a gigantic crew and like [crosstalk 00:21:59]-
Craig: Yeah [crosstalk 00:21:59] with someone outside the frame and there’s a lot of [crosstalk 00:22:01]-
Adam: … Jackie Chan’s crazy, but I do like thinking about it, like where the movement fits in the frame. I don’t know. I don’t think about it a lot, though, after the video’s done. I’m not going to lie. It’s like for [crosstalk 00:22:14] that day-
Craig: So much.
Adam: … if I don’t edit it that day, I don’t really want to [crosstalk 00:22:17]-
Craig: Good point. It doesn’t make it. It’s on the wrong side of the fold. It just goes the wrong way on the to-do list. Is there anyone that you would really like to work with? Like who you have a crush on? Or, “I really want to [crosstalk 00:22:29] either have this person shoot the video,” or, “I want to shoot video of that person?” Or, able to be in it? You got to tell me what the context is and who it [crosstalk 00:22:36] would be.
Adam: Yeah, I’d love to work with Pasha The Boss, for sure, or… No, Jason Paul. Yeah, either one. I don’t care. The Frayne guys are really fun. I think they’re super creative. Either filming them or being in the video.
Craig: Yes, please.
Adam: I’m not worried about them filming me so much, I just want to either be in the video or film them. I think that’d be really cool. Any of the guys that travel a lot like [inaudible 00:23:01] and those kind of athletes, but also most of the athletes that have fun don’t mind doing something really stupid that is impressive, but it’s like, “Why would you even try that?” I love clown stuff or you back flip to your stomach.
Adam: I love that.
Craig: Is that… Oh, that actually works?
Craig: He walked away. Okay.
Adam: Somehow that’s safe.
Craig: Yeah. How did they think of that? How did they manage to do it? You can’t screw it up. Like, “We’ll try it three times and the fourth one we’ll film.” No, that usually doesn’t work.
Adam: Yeah. The hip roll’s super fun, too. I cartwheel and I put my hips on the wall and then roll on the wall and then cartwheel out. I saw Pasha do that and-
Craig: I saw you do that at Battery Park, not [crosstalk 00:23:38] in the video. I was like [crosstalk 00:23:40]-
Adam: Yeah. “What is that?”
Craig: What irritates me is when I know what it is. I’m like, "Oh yeah, you just want to like-
Adam: Yeah. My headphones don’t hit it. I don’t know how I avoid it, but I do know how. It’s like right under it-
Craig: Right under it.
Adam: … but that’s my midline. Some people, their balance midline is like right on their hip bones, so trying that move, they have to negotiate with momentum and gravity. They can’t just have like equilibrium. It makes sense for their bone structure, but with my bone structure and how I’m balanced out [crosstalk 00:24:12] like under hip bones is my midpoint, so it’s really easy for me to find that space, also because of the circus.
Adam: I worked in Yoga City, by the way, so aerial hammock, so at Yoga Circus Studio they had an aerial yoga and we would do back balances and stomach balances, which hurt like hell. Anyways, they feel terrible, but it’s just on the skin that feels terrible. It’s not like the bone and the muscles so much, or I guess you’d be moving your fascia around. I don’t know, but that’s-
Craig: Dude, we’d normally be load-bearing that skin that there, like the skin on your hand-
Adam: It’s so uncomfortable.
Craig: … and on your feet.
Adam: After a while, the wall thing just made more sense and I saw Pasha doing it, so if he’s doing it, then-
Craig: It must be possible.
Adam: … it must be like possible. Anything’s Pashable. I want to Pasha everything.
Craig: Well played, well played.
Adam: Yeah, cut that out. No, I’m just [crosstalk 00:25:05]-
Craig: No, no. There is [crosstalk 00:25:07] no cutting room floor.
Adam: Yeah. I do like figure out where my midpoints are in my body, though, like where I can balance, where my toes and arms can be to just make that make sense. It takes a lot of slow motion and then slowly going faster and faster and holding shapes. If you don’t practice holding shapes, I think it’s going to be really difficult for you to play with that kind of movement.
Adam: If you don’t hold hollow bodies, if you don’t hold like Superman lifts and just rocking it and seeing where the buoyancy is in that shape, it’s going to be tough to learn those things with like power and explosiveness because you have to hold that shape. You launch your toes up in the cross as hard as you can, and then you hold that shape until your hands reach the floor.
Craig: Wait for it, wait for it.
Adam: People think about the hands so much that you’re not thinking about how long your leg gets and how your hips have to push forward.
Craig: Yeah, and if you can’t open the shape your hands never get to the ground.
Adam: Yeah. In Aerial Yoga, they do that all of the time, holding their shape in very uncomfortable situation, so if you want to get a quick conditioning of the hips and all of the joints, then definitely do some Circus and Aerial Yoga. That stuff hurts in a good way-
Adam: … all of that stuff, but it goes away. Then, you don’t feel it at all and you just power through all types of rolls.
Craig: Once you get used to it.
Adam: Yeah. I’m pretty sure I could Webster to my back right now because of all of the falling and playing around with rolls without hurting myself, like break fall.
Craig: On one hand, I’m tempted to say, “Yeah, do it,” because we have a video camera, and on the other hand, I’m tempted to say, “No, don’t do it,” because if you don’t-
Adam: I’m not warmed up, okay.
Craig: … you could hurt yourself and I’ll have to explain what happened to you.
Adam: No, I’ll do it off-camera later, but practice with rolling and like balancing with shapes and conditioning your skin and nerve endings and-
Adam: … Jesse’s great with Tompkins with stuff like that.
Adam: It’s the weird ways of like [crosstalk 00:27:08]-
Craig: In the bars.
Adam: … noodling through with bars.
Mindfulness journey [27:12]
Craig: Earlier, 15, 20 minutes ago, we were talking about… Maybe this was even before we punched record, we were just talking about being mindful about what you have physically in your space, in your apartment, in your house, in your life. I’m wondering, that’s all this entire project is, I’m wondering, can you remember a time… I would call that self-awareness. Although you say you’re not mindful, that’s being mindful. Like you say, you don’t focus [crosstalk 00:27:38] I think you do focus more than you give yourself credit for. Can you remember a time where you weren’t mindful about the things in your space or your life? Or-
Adam: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Craig: … I’m just wondering, can you take me back to that transition from the, I don’t know, pre- Adam to current Adam? Or-
Adam: Sure. Yeah, about like… I’m 27, so about six years ago-
Craig: Whew, I’m not the only person who doesn’t know how old they are or how many years [crosstalk 00:28:08]-
Adam: … seven years ago. My math was wrong, now it’s correct. About like seven years ago, I threw away like three garbage bags of stuff in my room and took everything off the walls. I had my whole wall full with like posters and different images. Some made sense for me. Some were just so random I needed it on my wall. It was like I would have like crazy, gnarly dreams or think about zombies and the end of the world, superhero shit, you know? I don’t know, I’ve always [inaudible 00:28:38] where I like have to fix something. I don’t know what it is, but I have to fix it. My dreams are really gnarly and when I was in my room, I was like, “Whoa, that was gnarly.” I wake up, I make my coffee, I have four things I have to do. Don’t do them. In my room, everything’s… I don’t know, very distracting and the space I was held there to was exhausting because of just how stressed people get after high school, especially if you just got off of a three-year relationship.
Adam: Anyways, a lot of stress and I was in my room just constantly. I just sat and think about the past and I had all of these memories laid out and I was very in the past. I think I’m not as mindful as I want to be, but I do notice when I’m not being mindful, and that is something to like, you know-
Craig: That’s the first step.
Adam: … pat yourself on the back for, for sure.
Craig: That’s the first step.
Adam: I feel like I’ve noticed since after high school because you get to make decisions for yourself, I just never stopped. I don’t mind thinking about my high school self and feeling just as young as mature as that person. Some people like to think they’re grown up, and I like to think of how not grow up I am. Sometimes I’m happy about it, sometimes I’m not, but it really depends. With my room being cleared of all of those memories, I felt so free and just a little bit more accepting of being alone in my room and with my thoughts. It was just a little bit easier. It allowed space for nothingness, which sounds fucking weird.
Craig: I don’t think it sounds weird at all. I’ve had people walk into my house where I live and go, “Does anybody live here?” I’ve actually had someone say that when they walk in. I’m like, “Yes.”
Adam: You need more plants. Then they’ll understand.
Craig: Well, that’s the one thing that my wife and I have a lot of is my wife-
Adam: Oh, good.
Craig: … loves that we have a lot of plants, but not a lot of I call it knickknacks, like not a lot of knickknacks around.
Craig: I didn’t mean to interrupt you.
Adam: No, that’s cool. We have a lot of knickknacks in the living room and I think that’s cool to have a space where there’s an energy or vibe or feng shui about it, but I think my room should be like a bed.
Craig: A restorative space.
Adam: That’s it, like a bed and tools for meditation. That’s it.
Craig: Is there anything else that you go to to recharge? It sounds like you’ve created a space where you can recharge there, but is there anything else that you do other than that specifically? Like-
Adam: I [inaudible 00:30:57] get out to places. I like to call myself innie-outie. Sometimes I get energy from being outside with a bunch of people until I don’t. When that point gets to the point of like diminished returns or whatever, I spend a lot of time alone. When being alone eventually starts… I start seeing these diminished returns, I go back to being outside. I’m not going to lie, there’s lots of times after a long day of movement, I go straight to the bar. I’m like hyped up and, I don’t know, the bar levels me out.
Adam: I don’t go to like party with all of my friends. I literally go alone and whoever’s there is there and that’s fine. I’ll write in my notebook and have a beer and chill. If someone’s there, that’s dope, but if they’re not there, that’s also okay. I’m not going to lie, that recharges my brain a little bit. My body deteriorates-
Adam: … a little bit, but I don’t know, I think the alone part, like going somewhere by myself just for myself is the thing. The beer totally helps, but I would love to just organize way more time just to be on my own solo because that’s why I go there, right?
Adam: It’s like to think. I don’t know. It does help me to recharge, I’m not going to lie. I would love to replace the beer with like tea or something like that, but I love whiskey.
Craig: When you find that part, let me know. I’d love to go to that part, too.
Adam: Yeah, right, right.
Craig: All the bars I know serve the other kind of tea.
Adam: It’s the bar setting, but they go to have Earl Gray.
Craig: I would love to see… Oh, I’d get my ass lobbed out of the bar. “Excuse me, sir, do you have any Earl Gray?”
Adam: Yeah. Can I get Earl Gray neat? Thank you.
Adam: That’d be awesome.
Craig: Two fingers of Earl Gray on the rocks.
Adam: I’m trying to figure out what that thing is, though, to replace that to get that social recharge, you know? The other direction is movement, being alone, training. Training with friends is dope, too, but I don’t think we talk too much when we’re actually moving. That would be very dangerous. We talk after, but during the time of training, it’s like. “You’re working on your thing, I’m working on my thing, and we’re focusing on movement.” I don’t know, training by yourself and… Tricking is really awesome in a grass field. Super relaxing. Just like working on kicks and flips and organizing your… I don’t know.
Craig: Organizing that three-dimensional in your body to practice in three dimensions as there’s a visceral… I’m not a Tricker. I’m not laughing at Tricking, I’m just laughing at the concept of me upside down right there. That’s funny in and of itself.
Adam: You’ve thrown a back flip before.
Craig: No, I’m actually in the zero back flips to date club. I have never [crosstalk 00:33:40]-
Adam: I feel like I saw you do it into a pit or something.
Craig: No [crosstalk 00:33:41]-
Adam: Maybe I’m thinking about someone else.
Craig: … so for a while, I was trying to do front flips, so-
Adam: Those are so much harder.
Craig: … yeah and, well, that’s part of why I went at it was just like, “Okay.” I don’t know if it’s age or practice or what, but if I do enough like forward rolls or front flips, eventually you get dizzy, right?
Craig: I said, “There’s an odometer. The clock’s ticking. If I’m going to do front flips into a foam pit, there’s like 13,” you know?
Craig: Whether they’re good, bad, ugly, there’s only 13 of them before I’m going to vomit in a foam pit. Andy Taylor in Philadelphia had a tumble track run set up into a foam pit and there was a rock climbing gym next door. For a while, I would drive down, rock climb for 20, 30 minutes, and then go next door to the Parkour. I’m like, “Hey, Andy, what’s up? You mind if I throw up in your foam pit?” “Yeah, I do mind.” You know? Like I’d go run to the tumble thing. We were having fun. He was coaching me through how to do just a regular front flip in to the pit. I think I shot some slow-mo videos of that because I wanted to see what it looked like and then I’m like, “You know, I could Instagram that.” I don’t know where those videos went, but you may have seen that. Nothing ever came of that. I’ve never even attempted to start the progressions for just like a standard back. I’m just… no, I mean-
Adam: The progressions alone are fun, I think.
Craig: Yeah. I think I understand what some of them are and the progressions are like, “You know, that makes sense, I guess. Probably to get that last progression, you want me to just do the thing with the [crosstalk 00:34:58]?” I’m not so sure about that.
Adam: They’ll do that.
Adam: It’s so much easier if you have [crosstalk 00:35:00] a trampoline. It’s not fair. I wish those trampolines were everywhere in open space.
Adam: That would be great. No, back flips are super fun and they’re spooky, but once you have like trust it’s going to work… I understand this step, this step, and this step. I’ve done each of them a hundred times, now just trust that it will work. With back flip, I didn’t trust it at all, but I’ve learned tricks over the last couple of years that required me to understand the trick, see a bunch of people doing it, and I went from beginning to the end and then it made sense. That trick was I did double fall on the trampoline. I’ve did tons of double twisting on my back and it was the first time where like I ran myself through it from beginning to end. My first attempt wasn’t scary. It’s the first trick ever that I wasn’t scared of. It was I [crosstalk 00:35:50]-
Craig: That’s a good sign if you had the progressions right.
Adam: Yeah, and I couldn’t hold on through it. Actually, at one point I started doing double by accident for too long because I didn’t do single very well, but my twisting and my trust of like how the axis felt when I was doing the back twisting, I don’t know, I watched it so many times and practiced all of the exercises for what muscles needed to get stronger that you have this moment where you’re like, “Oh shit, that makes sense.” I think I have the same thing with guitar, too, when I sort of learned how to tap like Van Halen.
Craig: Yeah, yeah.
Adam: I learned how to do that. It made no sense for like a year, and then one day I was just like, I don’t know, my fingers just understood it and I tapped for 12 hours straight. That’s what I did with every flip that I learned. When I first did my back flip, I did it every day for two weeks like to have it in there now.
Craig: Yeah, for ingrained, ingrained. Don’t not-
Adam: Don’t leave, don’t leave.
Craig: … don’t forget, don’t-
Adam: It’s not like riding a bike.
Craig: Back flip [inaudible 00:36:47] yeah.
Adam: Yeah, but there is a moment where pursuing tricks that, “Oh, this makes sense right now.” If you don’t do it right then when you feel that, it might not last forever, so then the fear starts settling in, but the more tricks you learn, you don’t have to learn a back flip. You can learn so many other easy tricks. I want to do B-Twist and in the process I learned Cheat 900, which is like you step and do a couple of spins and then you do a roundhouse kick. I got good at learning skills, even though they were small ones like Hook Kick and round. Getting that confidence boost, you now?
Adam: Kind of like in cop shows where they can’t close a case or whatever, so they do a bunch of small cases so that they can close a big case.
Craig: Close a big case.
Adam: It’s like, I don’t know, just learn small stuff and keep building your vocabulary if you can’t get that dream trick, you know, or that [crosstalk 00:37:38]-
Craig: Yeah, until you learn that you are able to learn, and then work on that big one.
Adam: That’s why I think all of the people that travel are the best at Parkour, the ones that like travel the world because their brains are constantly having new challenges and they’re
Craig: Exposed to fresh experiences?
Craig: There’s something to be said for that, but you probably can find fresh experiences in one’s backyard. Maybe not your literal backyard, but in the area where you live. On one hand, I do think especially in America, more people need to travel more. I know people who forget they don’t have a passport. They’ve never been outside their state. I’m like, “Yo, there is some really beautiful, really cool states, just like two over. You don’t have to go to the other side.”
Craig: I’m generally a big advocate of people traveling more. Obviously, things are harder with the current issues with-
Adam: He’s talking about COVID.
Craig: … health.
Travel, heights, confidence [38:30]
Craig: You’ve randomly come around and touched on travel a few times now, so my question is, are there any places that you really want to go that you haven’t been to?
Adam: Yeah. I’m trying to think of my favorite before I start saying places.
Craig: Right, I guess, but I really don’t [crosstalk 00:38:51]-
Adam: I don’t know. I’m really excited about Colorado, but if I can be anywhere, it’s probably going to be out of America. I think it would be like a little bit of Spain, but I think Japan is probably like the highest on the list right now. Denmark would be lovely, Germany. Actually, Germany is kind of high on the list. I like their community. They’re weird, but still fun, though. I don’t know. Somewhere with really dope spots and really good gyms. I want to go to one of those really big bounce trampoline places. I was actually considering like, “What if I just became an indoor Parkour guy?” It’s like totally anti-Parkour.
Craig: Hey, I’m going to go own this niche [crosstalk 00:39:30]-
Adam: What if I only go to indoor Parkour stuff? I don’t know. I want to explore some more rooftop stuff because I was afraid as like a lot of people. If it’s in my skill range, I don’t do new stuff on rooftops ever, but if it’s stuff I’ve done-
Craig: That’s wise.
Adam: … so many times and, I don’t know, I feel like my trust in my body at height, I just want to go somewhere where it’s like the cops are not going to shoot at you for being on a rooftop, or like being so worried that they just say, “Hey, what are you doing? Get down.” It’s like, “I’m sorry.” “Okay, bye,” and that’s it.
Adam: Why does it have to be… I don’t know. It makes sense, though, for… I don’t condone rooftop stuff. I tell everyone, “Don’t do it,” but in the back of my head, I trust me and I safety check everything. I don’t just jump from like rooftop to rooftop, I just like being on them and, I don’t know, looking at the view. Williamsburg Bridge is the most fun I’ve ever had with like heights and exposure.
Craig: I was going to say, were you a part of that climb? I guess that answers that question.
Adam: Yeah. That was me.
Craig: That was the other Adam, sorry.
Adam: There was this one point… I know I can walk on anything like that at any height and that’s fine. It’s like the swipe. I can walk on that at any height with consequence on both sides. It’s fine, but that was the first time where I walked on something that was like as wide as my foot, not rounded, just as wide as my foot and I felt grounded, like very grounded and there was no vertigo. I don’t do anything if there’s vertigo or fear in my stomach at all. If I have anything like that, I don’t go. It’s not worth it, but if the fear is relaxed and… I don’t know. If I could look up and know where my body is and I can feel where… The wind, sorry about that.
Craig: No, I was just thinking, “You know what? We couldn’t have asked for a better time for the wind to pick up.”
Craig: Now, I feel like-
Adam: You’re on a rooftop.
Craig: I feel like I’m on a rooftop or I’m on the girder and I’m on one foot.
Adam: Yeah. We did a walking meditation during yoga where we had to feel the four corners of our feet, and as we were stepping, we had to keep the weight consistent from both sides of our feet. We walked in the circle for like 30 minutes. That was awesome, and I think that’s a big reason why-
Craig: Why you felt grounded in that experience you [crosstalk 00:41:47]-
Adam: … yeah. I’m wearing the phase all of the time. I don’t jump in phase anymore because of my ankle, but like feeling the floor and feeling how your weight shifts from like one side of your foot [crosstalk 00:41:56]-
Craig: See, it’s not that we can’t run in the podcast, as I’m wearing old school Saucony Bullets with the insoles pulled out, so there’s [crosstalk 00:42:03] there’s two millimeters. Then, you feel nothing then.
Craig: Just two millimeters of rubber and there’s nothing in there but-
Adam: That’s awesome.
Craig: Well, it is and it isn’t, but I’ll tell you what, I give up on a lot of jumps. I don’t have very big jumps, but like, “Oh, I dialed that back to 80%,” because you got to land that shit. You put out the landing gear, there’s nothing between the bones but that little fat pad under your foot, so I really do like the tactile feedback from these shoes. Normally, I walk around barefoot in the house or whatever around the house.
Adam: Yeah. Yeah, barefoot life is awesome. I don’t think I’m going to train in Barefoot Shoes anymore. I’m going to stick to the STRIKE MVMNTs, but I think walking barefoot all of the time like with the Vibrams are my favorite right now.
Adam: Vibrams are so awesome.
Craig: Work your feet and get the feedback of the tactile as a general thing, and then you know like a bicycle has technology and clothes are technology, so why shouldn’t we wear shoes that are appropriate for what you want to do? I don’t fault people for wearing Marshmallows on their feet.
Adam: Yeah [crosstalk 00:43:03]-
Craig: People for UGG Boots, that’s the thing, but anyway-
Adam: UGG Boots, they’re so warm. I don’t know if I have those.
Craig: I do not.
Adam: I want warm Vibrams that are waterproof. Give me that, please. They have like waterproof and then you wear them and then the seam’s like ripped, but they look so good, like so dope. Also, I think fashion makes you feel… Parkour fashion, dress how you want to feel when you’re training. It’s fun. I don’t know, it really helps me train. I can move my imagination. I just try to dress as close to a ninja as possible. I don’t know why. It helps my dress how you feel kind of thing. I should probably also do like you are what you eat, but I’m more like you are what you wear.
Craig: You are what you wear. Oh, wow.
Adam: Yeah. It seems to be really-
Craig: Tell me to go home and rage quit my entire wardrobe [crosstalk 00:43:54]-
Adam: It doesn’t have to be a ninja, either. It could be like you look like Die Hard the whole time. I don’t know. Whatever it is to make you feel like you are better than you actually are at this skill. Confidence is so key.
Craig: Yeah. I agree there. There’s something to be said for power poses. I’ve talked to enough people who coach people who give public presentations and stuff and they talk about and there’s research that shows that like, “Go in the bathroom and do the [inaudible 00:44:22].”
Craig: Then, now I actually feel better now. I’m ready to ask the next question, but like-
Adam: Perfect [crosstalk 00:44:27]-
Craig: … do that kind of stuff to remind your physical self, your central nervous system, that you are who you want to be.
Craig: I feel like I should write that out and that should be what I look at every morning.
Adam: Yeah. I don’t notice the floor at all when I’m training. I stand on walls and I just feel so good just being a little higher than I normally. Just when I’m prepping for the next movement I try not to stay on the floor. I try to walk on the walls as much as possible-
Craig: The perspective-
Adam: … also, exposure to height, that’s very useful if you want to get better exposure. Just walking on every curve like you did when you were a kid, just balancing. It does feel good to just be somewhere that most people don’t think to be for a little while. I guess that’s where I totally stroke my ego. It’s like, “Adam, this is so cool right now,” but I have to be confident because I feel like if I don’t trust myself, my hands do this and if my hands do this, who am I to say that my other body parts are not doing something-
Craig: Yeah, just because it’s coming out like here-
Adam: … awkward-
Craig: … I can see it, but-
Adam: … that I don’t want it to do. Everyone has like either a weird face when they jump or a weird hand or arm movement that they want to fix stylistically. Those are the most obvious things, but there’s smaller muscles-
Craig: Just symptoms, yes.
Adam: … not doing what you want it to do because you’re slightly scared or slightly not as confident in yourself. There was a study, I don’t know who it was. I know Jay Robes told me about it and there was this guy, Jay Robes, please tell me who this scientist was because I really need to study it-
Craig: We’ll look it up for the show notes.
Adam: … yes, please. This guy was doing an experiment with like confidence and how your body listens to confidence. If you don’t trust you, your body doesn’t trust you and it doesn’t perform as well, but if you trust your body performance better, that’s the theory. They were putting their arm through like a hole in the wall and there was this pressure on their arm trying to push it down. They couldn’t see their arm and they would ask the person questions like, “What’s your name? Where are you from?” They had to answer honestly. They would ask them a bunch of questions and they would answer honestly and they would fight the pressure that’s on their arm.
Adam: The next time around after their arm recovered or whatever, they would give them a script and they would answer the questions with lies and the arm would not be able to fight against the pressure-
Adam: … as well. Once Jay Robes told me that, I didn’t look into it at all, I just put it as fact in the back of my brain. I was like, “This is true,” and it helped my training, I think, big time. If it isn’t true, then it’s totally, whoops, it’s totally placebo effect-
Craig: I’ll take placebo.
Adam: … but if it is true, though, it’s been working for me for six years for the confidence. I’m pretty sure he told me that like roughly when I started moving with moving creative. Actually, it may be like four years ago. I forget how long I’ve been teaching. I think like four years now, but it totally helps big time. Those pretty shapes that Pasha does when he’s throwing himself in the pool and to be able to hold that shape for that long, you must understand the physics and, I don’t know. Basically, trust, always trust. Brother, you go a little bit, break it down later because you don’t want to have it forever, but-
Craig: No. It’s almost like you’re building a different kind of ego. You’re building-
Craig: … I don’t know. Maybe you’re building up your id and tearing down your ego. I’m not a [crosstalk 00:47:58]-
Adam: It’s so tricky-
Craig: … philosopher.
Adam: … because you fall over the other side so easily. You’ll be on this like confidence, confidence, confidence, and then out of nowhere just for this one day, because it’s convenient for you, confidence becomes arrogance. It’s so close, they’re so close. Now, he’s Icarus with the wax wings and stuff like that.
Adam: That’s why mindfulness, again. If you listen to yourself all of the time, you’ll notice when you’re going to arrogance and you’re being a douchebag or whatever, but I don’t know. I want to balance it out so badly. I know I don’t have it. Well, knowing I don’t have it is a thing-
Craig: Is the-
Adam: … is-
Craig: I’m going to say-
Adam: … great. It is great.
Craig: … self-awareness, that’s the first piece. Yes. Sometimes you see people that have no self-awareness and it doesn’t even… Well, I’m not going to correct them. It’s like, “Okay, this, too, shall pass.”
Adam: It’s so frustrating because just saying you don’t have really the tangibility of it of saying that exists, I know I’m already off. I hate that I read so many books and watched so many videos on it because now it’s like a science. It’s in me. I don’t have to go get and stuff like that. I’ve read it so many times and I still keep perceiving it outside of myself over and over again. I don’t know. That’s why I think I took a huge break. I just posted on Instagram. I realized a couple of months ago that I’m addicted to listening to mindful information, like I’m addicted to listening to it. That’s like being addicted to Joe Rogan. I’m addicted to hearing people talk about how I can be more good for myself, but I don’t [crosstalk 00:49:37]-
Craig: Mindfulness porn, right? Exactly.
Adam: … so I stopped watching stuff for like a couple of months. I was like, “Yep, no more videos. Time to straight practice.”
Craig: Time to do it.
Adam: Yeah. It’s been real. I’m back on mindfulness videos, though, because I feel like I-
Craig: Fell off the wagon.
Adam: … now, I’m actually listening again. That’s not like background noise, so I’m okay with going back and listening. Before I was like I was noticing I was just putting it on while I was making breakfast, you know?
Craig: Yeah. That’s kind of like the exact opposite of what you should be doing with your mindfulness practice.
Adam: It’s not true listening, sitting down, hearing the tones of their voice and textures. All of this is related to Parkour. If you don’t see how this is related to Parkour, then you haven’t [crosstalk 00:50:14] been doing Parkour [crosstalk 00:50:15]-
Craig: Be listening-
Adam: … long enough.
Mindfulness and being alone [50:17]
Craig: Random sort of ideas popping in my head. I’m thinking about mindfulness practice, so if you imagine, excuse me, if you imagine doing something that would require mindfulness like, for example, doing a simple, air quoting, “walk on a beam”, but it’s at height and there’s risk, that could be considered mindfulness practice. Or, it could also be seated meditation. If you think about things you have done that you would consider mindfulness practice, what’s the longest in like stopwatch time that you’ve been able to like, “Yes, I was doing a mindfulness practice and it lasted three seconds or whatever?”
Adam: Mm-hmm (affirmative). I guess the longest time I’ve did something mindful, I chanted for an hour, and that was actually not bad at all. That’s the same word over and over again, same sentence or phrase. That was like a Buddhist practice, but the hardest one I’ve ever done was Qigong, like water dragon something where I was like this for 30 minutes. That was probably the most difficult.
Craig: What made it so much more difficult than chanting? Just the physical-
Craig: … monster rapping on the brain like, “We need to cut this out?” Or-
Adam: Yeah. It was, I don’t know, like I went through a lot of emotions. I feel like we trap emotions in certain parts of our body, and I think this one like… I guess I hold a lot of tension in my shoulders. I think there’s a lot of stress there.
Craig: That adds up real quick when you’re trying to hold a pose.
Adam: Yes, and you’re holding a pose that requires your shoulders to be like stable. That was really hard, but after chanting for an hour, though, that whole entire day, energy. It was like 8 AM and energy the whole entire day. I was doing this event that actually was like a Buddhist group that like [inaudible 00:52:00] so I don’t really go as much now because I realize any mass organization is not good for me so I just don’t do it.
Adam: I started seeing some people trying to be like other people instead of more like themselves. I’m good on that. Even though it does work out for them at first because they get out away from their bad habits before. I knew this guy that was homeless and he’s doing a great job there, but I notice… Now, he’s not homeless, doing really well for himself, but for me, I think I was going away from the practice by being there. I don’t want to be like my sensei. I want to be me-
Adam: … so I started noticing mannerisms about all my friends there and I was like, “Oh, I don’t want to do that.” Anyways, chanting, that whole entire day, I think the practice of chanting and saying it over and over again gave me so much. It’s like active meditation. Instead of just like, I don’t know, it was very active. I think that’s the… I can’t wait to be by myself. I don’t know if Mumsy’s and my brother and chanting for an hour might be a little annoying, so on my own, though, I’m actually excited for-
Craig: On a rock-
Adam: … a little bit of chanting.
Craig: … there are some cool rocks in Boulder.
Adam: I’ll be so alone in Boulder. I just want a year by myself.
Craig: I’m so alone.
Adam: No, a good year. It’s going to be great. It’s going to be great being alone a little bit.
Craig: Are you being serious? Or is that like a, "It’s going to be a great year, yeah [crosstalk 00:53:21]-
Adam: No, I’m not scared at all. I’m so not scared that like it’s weird.
Craig: Totally stoked. Excited.
Adam: I’m very excited. I’m excited for the year, and I tell my friends like, “See you later,” not, “Goodbye,” you know?
Craig: Yeah. I talk about that sometimes in Parkour context, like years ago in the very beginning, you know the Parkour goodbyes. “Say goodbye to everybody,” and then it’s like, “Oh, this is so emotional.” Now, I’m like [crosstalk 00:53:44]-
Adam: 30 minutes later-
Craig: … I love… Yeah, well, I haven’t gone so far as to start completely Irish goodbying everybody [crosstalk 00:53:51]. I don’t do that to people, but I actually… it’s not enjoying it, but I do almost enjoy the goodbye part because it’s just, “See you later. I don’t have any idea where. Didn’t expect to see you today. This was so awesome, so I can only imagine the next time I run into you is going to be even more awesome than this [crosstalk 00:54:07].”
Craig: I kind of like that, like running into people, but even if you’re not traveling far, it still presumes you’re traveling and you’re moving around in different circles, so I think that’s one of the things that I love most about… Maybe that’s overexaggerating. One of the things that I really like about Parkour or freerunning or whatever you want to call it, is that you’re in different places, but you’re moving in the same kinds of people. You might not meet the exact same person, but you know that it’s very likely that I’ll run into… I cannot remember where I last saw you. I have no clue. I could take several guesses that are probably true-
Craig: … but I’m just like, “Yeah, I saw you before. I’ll see you again. Hey, how are you doing? I have no idea how long it’s been since I talk to you, whatever.”
Craig: There’s almost like a… If I go to visit my family, it’s like, “Oh, it’s been two years, 13 days, and 17 minutes and, no, I haven’t seen the new baby.” Everything has to be jammed into that one experience, whereas in the Parkour, it’s like, "Yeah, we had-
Adam: Very natural.
Craig: … “a great conversation. We were standing under some cool Sycamore trees.”
Craig: You know? People [crosstalk 00:55:05]-
Adam: Parkour havens, too, like going out to [inaudible 00:55:08] by yourself, you see at least one friend. It’s so great, or if you make a new friend, that’s cool, too. Makes groups or something like that. I hate finding out someone I love on the internet is at a spot and I wasn’t there. Like the day before I was there but I wasn’t there that day. Oh [crosstalk 00:55:26] so bad.
Craig: You’ve got three dimensions, right? You were in the correct X, Y, and Z, but you missed the T, so it was [inaudible 00:55:32]. You got a four, that’s 75%.
Adam: That’s a good point. I’ve never heard anyone say that before. I might use that later. Like FliplikeZ was at a… I know his actual name. They call him Z. He was at a Scoops and I just discovered him and he’s like doing stupid stuff like double column gainers. He’s more into flips than Parkour, which is really interesting how people can be so good at flips but their Parkour is like… I could totally hang out with them and be fine.
Craig: It’s like cooking. Depends on what you’re into. If you’re into spaghetti, you’re not going to be so good at seafood.
Adam: Yeah, flips and Parkour, they actually are like basically two communities. I’m glad that they’re blending a lot more now.
Craig: They’ve become more accepting of each other.
Craig: I don’t know how there’s blending going on, but there’s definitely acceptance,
Adam: Yeah. I like both. There’s a time and place for both, but really, I just want to play. I learned flips, not because I like it more than Parkour. I’m just doing a lot of flips now because I want to be able to hang with everybody. I don’t want there to be anyone that I can’t play with. If someone’s doing something at a specific spot doing a specific skill, I’m not going over there like, “What up?” That’s looks fun, I want to try it. We’ll hang out and like critique each other. I do that with Parkour, too. Some people I know don’t like that, though, where they’re doing a running free and you’re like, “That looks cool,” and then I do it. Or, if I’m doing a jump and I’m really trying to break it-
Craig: Yeah, if somebody [crosstalk 00:56:53] just comes by and drives by and-
Adam: … does it-
Craig: … “I got it.” “Yeah, that’s a cool jump, bro.”
Adam: … it makes me happy because then they break it for me and I’ll just go. There’s some jumps that I do really want to break by myself and I’ll tell my friend, “Don’t do it,” but if you want to do it and it’s going to make his heart happy to do that exercise, then go, do it. If I know he can do it 10 out of 10 times and I really want to break it by myself, I’ll bring that up and be like, "Hey, don’t do it because I like this one.
Craig: Yeah, I want to see that.
Adam: “I want to battle. I really want to do this myself, please. I want to go the beginning to end by myself.” I’m trying to think. I’ve definitely done that. I’ve definitely caught someone did something and they’re like, “Well, I don’t want to do it anymore.”
Craig: Sometimes I like to collect stories, so there’s a lot that can be said about why I collect stories and, what’s the point of collecting stories? I think it says a lot about people when you hear what kind of story they pick and maybe what details they leave out or include and things like that. I’m wondering maybe in the context of… let’s go in the context of travel. We’ve been talking about travel and saying how great it is and how great it is to travel. In the context of like travel, and you can interpret that overseas, local, different parks, but in the context of travel, is there a story that springs to mind when I say, “Is there a story you’d like to share?”
Adam: Probably. Well, I’ve been stuck in the East Coast. I feel like I’m kind of sick of this area. I got to love my Parkour fam always, but I’m done with New York. I look at the big buildings and I’m just not impressed.
Craig: Any longer, you’re not even looking up anymore, right?
Adam: Yeah, I’m just looking at just a certain people of certain people like passerbyes and nothing’s exciting, which is so crazy because New York is ridiculous to even say that, but I’ve been there my whole entire life, and then to go to Jersey and like… I don’t know. It’s kind like I want to experience something new and I always felt like myself as a nomadic person. I can be anywhere and be fine. When I was a kid, I had a book with all of the religions and I wrote in like terrible crayon, “This is my book. Do not touch this book ever.”
Adam: I was looking at it and I was like, “There’s hella religions here and hella like cultures. I want to live on a mountain.” I used to have dreams about living on a mountain in China or something like that. This Colorado thing is like Colorado’s cool, but it’s like the start of me going everywhere. I’m going to go to Colorado and people say, “Oh, you’ll be back in a year.” I was like, “I’ll be somewhere in a year.” I want to be there for a year.
Craig: I’ll wave as I fly over on my way there.
Adam: Yeah, but if COVID levels out, I don’t mind trying to get a visa or something to be somewhere for a year, like a different country. I want to travel as much as possible and meet as much people as possible. A lot of like… Oh man, on the record, whatever, a lot of the women that I fell in love with in New York City, they were for like two weeks. Bye. Gone. They don’t do it on purpose. I don’t know why I fall in love with women that are not from here all of the time. I don’t know, like Denmark, Germany, Lithuania, they’re not like hard to keep or anything like that.
Adam: They’re both individuals and we’re still friends to this day and like love and respect each other. I just feel like I felt so many homies that are not from here and I think, I don’t know, I want to experience all of the flavors of people and like hang out with them. I have some friends that were just visiting and we just had one amazing night together, and then they were gone. It’s like, “Damn, bye, brother.” It felt like a life forever friends and I like that feeling. I can get that in New York, but it’s always me showing everyone around. I want to be shown around this spot. I want to see.
Adam: I want to see-
Adam: … what your culture’s like.
Craig: I want to be the wide-eyed newborn, like, “What’s going on here?”
Adam: Yeah, that new feeling. I think it feels great and I’m not afraid of that at all. I think actually if anything goes out of line, I think to a certain extent, I don’t want to get like, you know [inaudible 01:01:22] a gorilla camp and then I become like [crosstalk 01:01:24]-
Craig: That’s bad [crosstalk 01:01:24]-
Adam: … a camera for [crosstalk 01:01:26]-
Craig: … that’s bad.
Adam: Nothing that crazy, but if there’s some little financial issue or I can’t get a car in a place that I need a car or there’s no hot water somewhere, those kind of issues.
Craig: Something to challenge you a little bit, to make you think how, “Well, is that really necessary?”
Craig: “Really? Okay, I can do that, then.”
Adam: I can do that. I want that feeling, and I know Colorado’s going to be crazy with the snow and stuff like that. I don’t know what it’s like [crosstalk 01:01:54]-
Craig: Point out that you’re heading for Colorado at the beginning of the snowy season, but like, yeah, you’ll figure it out.
Adam: Oh, snowboarding for sure.
Craig: You’ll figure it out.
Adam: Yeah, I’ll definitely figure it out. I love the cold. I was born in February. I’m a February baby and love that stuff. I’m great with like bike messenger, winter, New York City.
Craig: Right. I would be like, “Oh, I think it’ll be all right here.”
Adam: They wouldn’t let me leave the restaurant sometimes because they look outside and look at me-
Craig: I know.
Adam: … and they’re like-
Craig: No, you’re going to die.
Adam: … “No.” This old guy gave me tea once and he was like, “We’re not letting you go. Just sit here, get warm.”
Craig: Like, "Dude, I get a bonus if I leave right now and [crosstalk 01:02:25]-
Adam: Exactly. It’s like, “Gee, I’m trying to get 18 an hour here, man. If I stay here, it’s going to be like 10 an hour. I can’t afford $10.”
Craig: “You’re killing me, old man, with [crosstalk 01:02:31] your tea.”
Adam: I’m like chugging burning hot tea. Like [crosstalk 01:02:35]-
Craig: No one’s not looking.
Adam: … over your shoulder.
Craig: “I got to go.”
Adam: That’s what I felt like. I think that’s why I’m sick of New York because I did bike messenger work for too long there. I was like… Oh, I met this girl-
Craig: Bike burnout.
Adam: … this is why I wanted to talk to you about bikes. I met this girl. Actually, she is he now, Genesis. At the time, she was a badass right. She played the drums. Oh, she was awesome, but Genesis is like, “Oh, Adam, let’s hang out.” “I have to do this delivery first.” “Want to come [inaudible 01:03:04]?” I was like, “Fine, I made enough money today. Let’s do it.” I’m following her through Manhattan traffic, but it’s like the moving bumper-to-bumper traffic.
Craig: Oh, that sounds sketchy because room for one bike-
Adam: Super sketchy.
Craig: … does not mean there’s room for two bikes.
Adam: Right. No, I’m like right behind her and she’s like swerving and at points I couldn’t follow her. I was like, “Why are you still going and not slowing down?” I saw there was two trucks and the mirror was coming out. I tell the story all of the time because I fucking love it. The windows were out, so it’s not about the handlebars anymore. It’s about the windows, I mean, the mirrors of the truck. They’re gigantic and there’s two of them side by side. I know the measure of my-
Craig: The width of the handlebars?
Adam: … the width of my handlebars, so it’s like muscle memory at that point. She had enough room for her handlebars but had no space for her shoulders because it was like where her shoulders were at. She thought it would be a good idea to just put her hands in the middle and then go like…
Adam: She brushed it. She didn’t slow down. I could see her shoulder hit it and then I was like, “I’m not following you.” I don’t know if the audio got all of that, but I’m not following her at all and I’m going to go around this way. When I came back in, I see her again and now she’s like rubbing herself on trucks and through vans to get through and buses. She’s using the environment-
Craig: Using the obstacles, literally using the obstacles-
Adam: … using the environment-
Craig: … on a bicycle.
Adam: … and I only did that once, but-
Craig: When she got the organ to where it was going, did the organ recipient survive?
Adam: Yeah. The bank did get the million-dollar check that she was trying to deliver, yes. She went to through the four checkpoints. She’s fine.
Craig: That’s [crosstalk 01:04:44] she’d be making the 2008 [inaudible 01:04:45] happen, yeah.
Adam: Yeah, I forgot how I went there. Oh yeah, being in New York, like a different part of New York constantly. Oh, rooftops, if you’re doing bike delivery service and you want to see a lot of rooftops, you’d deliver it and then instead of going back downstairs, you look for the rooftop button and press R and if there’s an emergency door, don’t go through it. That’s trespassing, but if you want just like a quick view to watch, I did it for like-
Craig: Just duck out-
Adam: … for a year-
Craig: … and taking the view.
Adam: … yeah, just like look and then I want to go back up.
Craig: I thought you were going to say you ride your bikes along the rooftops, but now I see what you’re saying.
Adam: That’s terrifying. No, I’ll [crosstalk 01:05:17] finish my delivery, I’ll-
Craig: I’ll take the opportunity to take a little look.
Adam: … take the opportunity to go upstairs, and then I’ll go down. Sometimes they don’t like that, the door guy. Sometimes [crosstalk 01:05:26] a lot of [crosstalk 01:05:27]-
Adam: … but 90% of the time, no one cares. I’ll be there. Everyone’s in their $5,000 suits or whatever in this building and they see me and they know I don’t work here.
Craig: Yeah, they don’t even see you. They’re like, “Oh, the delivery guy.”
Adam: They see me pressing the rooftop button and I’m like, “Yes, I’m going up. Sorry.” Then, I go up and I come back down and I leave. I don’t do jumps. I don’t like balance on railings. I literally just go up, look at stuff [inaudible 01:05:49].
Adam: Yeah. There’s only like two rooftops that I’ve done jumps on in Manhattan. That’s it, and there wasn’t even death consequence. It was just an uncomfortable drop. Or, actually, the stick would have been dangerous, but it doesn’t matter. I don’t want to talk about that.
Craig: We don’t talk about that.
Adam: Yeah, don’t do rooftops. It’s not necessary. I just like the walking part. I don’t really want to do any more jumps like that. Skyscrapers are stupid. In the UK, though, their rooftops are a little bit lower. I’m thinking about that. That would be fun.
Craig: Yeah, they’re still high enough, though.
Adam: Oh yeah, for sure. Well, plan B, plan C, plan D. If you don’t have those, don’t do it.
Craig: Don’t do it.
Adam: They should be if I jump too far and if I don’t jump enough plans.
Craig: I don’t know if I can hit the head with a bird after sticking it, there’s a plan for that, right?
Adam: Whoa. Actually, something like that happened to me once. It was great. A little square. I had to take one step off of that. Not death consequence, just regular consequence, and it was to a rail. I did it like three times and on the fourth time, the branch brushed my hair. I didn’t have this bun, so it’s like brushed it-
Adam: … and it was just enough to hit me right where I was taking off, so that extra toe push didn’t happen.
Craig: Oh, because you ducked, yeah.
Adam: Yeah, because I ducked, and I adapted in the weirdest way. I knew one of my legs could make it and the other couldn’t, and I already had two shinners at this point in my Parkour career. I was like, “Okay, how do I get through this?” I let one leg go over and I accepted the second shinner and I think because of like… I don’t know where this… Where did I learn isolation stuff? I guess probably Circus and handstand things, but I totally relaxed my left left, no shinner. It was so weird. I relaxed it and externally rotated, so all it did was like rub against all of the soft-
Craig: Oh [crosstalk 01:07:51]-
Adam: … parts of my body. I don’t know how my hip just knew to do that. One leg’s going over and the rail just like basically rubbed all of this and I rolled off the side. I looked at John [inaudible 01:08:04]. I think it was right before he went on to teach and I was like, “Dude, did you see that?” It was like a happy, “I’m okay.” [crosstalk 01:08:10]-
Craig: Do it again? No.
Adam: “Did you see that?” I don’t know how that happened. I was so happy because I wanted to give my body a hug as if it was like [crosstalk 01:08:18] externally from myself, just like, “I appreciate you so much. Thank you for taking care of me without me having to do anything.”
Craig: Your body’s [crosstalk 01:08:25] writing a letter. “That was completely inappropriate. You did not [crosstalk 01:08:29] check your surfaces.”
Adam: “How dare you?” Yeah, that’s a good point. My body would be a little mad at me.
Craig: I feel like Alex Povloski should do a Parkour panel about that-
Craig: … like where your brain and your body are exchanging letters to each other about like, "The other Tuesday, I did not like the thing you did with the-
Craig: … “what were you thinking when you ate all of the dumplings?”
Adam: Oh, God. I’ve trained with like no water, like just coffee and just disgusting breakfast food and somehow had good sessions. I don’t know. It’s much better to be super hydrated and-
Craig: Sometimes I see people-
Adam: … have an orange.
Craig: … I often don’t eat very well, but when I see people do really like crazy food stuff, remember the old Back to the Future movies? The very first one?
Adam: Yeah [crosstalk 01:09:14]-
Craig: At the very end of the movie, Doc comes right back and he’s got Mr. Fusion mounted on the back of the DeLorean and he opens it up and he’s like, “You got to go back.” He’s throwing like banana peels and dumps a beer and then the can and-
Adam: Oh yeah.
Craig: … just throws all of this crap into Mr. Fusion. Sometimes I feel like that when you get-
Adam: What came out?
Craig: Well, energy apparently, but sometimes in the morning when you roll off the floor on the Parkour Passport and you’re like, “Okay, I don’t know. I think I saw like bacon and,” yeah, bacon. Sorry, flashback storytime. I once woke up on somebody’s floor, expectantly. They were were expecting me to be there. I woke up on the floor and somebody else who was crashing there who was already cooking bacon and I was going to fast that morning. I wasn’t going to have breakfast and then this person goes, “Hey, would you like some bacon?” From like the adjacent kitchen, and I go, “Well,” and he had like a three-pound slab of back bacon that he had, sorry, if people are vegetarians, had cubed it.
Craig: It was in a cast iron skillet. It was mostly done and he was like throwing onions and eggs in and I was like, “Fasting or… Sure I would love some of that. Yes, please.” Sometimes you really score big and other times you wind up with like, I don’t know, a bar out of a vending machine or something.
Craig: Although I have to say the nicest thing I have ever seen is at that same house a sign like as you were going out the door that said, “Take what you need,” and in the basket was just like random candy bars and [inaudible 01:10:44] bars and cheeses.
Adam: That is so cool.
Craig: It was just like a random grab thing of like of, "If you’re leaving this house and you need something, please take [crosstalk 01:10:50]-
Adam: Yeah [crosstalk 01:10:50]-
Craig: … it.
Adam: That’s awesome.
Craig: An open-hearted space
Adam: I want to hold that kind of space in Colorado, for sure. I know when it comes to a trainer, a snowboarder, just to hang out. I want to like, I don’t know, like a place to sleep. There’s so many things I want to do, but I was living with my mother and I couldn’t. I think during that time where I felt like trapped in New York City, I got taken care of so well here by so many friends. The Parkour community really is like so loving.
Craig: Yeah, people do pay it forward.
Adam: Parkour people can sleep anywhere. They can [crosstalk 01:11:23]. I have an extra bed, though, so I’m really excited about that.
Craig: Two square meters, Wi-Fi, and a bathroom. That’s all we ask for.
Adam: I was talking about John [inaudible 01:11:29] and he can sleep on a bench with like [crosstalk 01:11:32]-
Craig: You’ve seen him do it [crosstalk 01:11:34] and Borga. I’ve seen Borga [inaudible 01:11:36]. Oh, there’s a human being in here [crosstalk 01:11:39]-
Adam: Either way.
Craig: He’s like wedged.
Adam: He’s like a vampire. I don’t know how he does it.
Craig: Hang him upon the door.
Adam: Yeah. It’s so uncomfortable, but yeah.
Final thoughts [1:11:51]
Craig: All right. Well, I want to be mindful of your time. Is there anything else that springs to mind that you… I think I mentioned before anything you wanted to talk about on your way here, but anything else that now you’re like, “Ooh, I thought of something else?”
Adam: I don’t know. I start at the beginning, kind of my whole entire life [crosstalk 01:12:07]-
Craig: No, let’s not do that.
Adam: Oh, man.
Craig: I don’t want you to groan or have like a nervous breakdown [crosstalk 01:12:14]-
Adam: Yeah, for reals. There’s not really much because right now it’s still like I’m learning, figuring out where I belong. I’m taking a break from teaching, so I’m not going to be teaching at all.
Craig: All right. How about this? I’ll give you a standard question with a little twist. Since you’re leaving the metropolitan East Coast corridor, if you could leave a billboard behind with one thing on it-
Adam: Oh yeah.
Craig: … what would it be?
Craig: Could have been worse. Could have been, “See you, suckers,” right? Yeah, okay.
Adam: No, it’s going to be… I don’t know. What’s been coming in my head a lot is like… It sounds so sad. It’s like, “I’ll never forget you.” I want everyone to know that wholeheartedly that I will not like take any of this time in New York City and New Jersey for granted. It’s a special place in my heart. Just thinking that I’m going to be gone forever or I’m going to forget you and that time doesn’t matter, I hate to see anyone thinking that way. I just want to be like, “I love you.”
Craig: Fundamentally part of who I am now.
Adam: Yeah, you are part of the matter and building blocks in me. I got here because of… Not that I’m not like anywhere super extravagant, I show up at the bar like every other night pretty much hanging out, but the love I have for movement and my friends, I don’t know, I just want them to know I’ll be back. That’s pretty much it. My life is this move right now. I’m very present with that, so I’m not really thinking so much about the past or the future, you know? I just want my friends to just know that I’m not leaving [crosstalk 01:14:02]-
Craig: :Leads it back to mindful. That’s [crosstalk 01:14:04]-
Adam: I have to [crosstalk 01:14:04]-
Craig: … you’re talking about [crosstalk 01:14:04]-
Adam: … I had to. Every day I think about it.
3 words [1:14:08]
Craig: Awesome. That’s awesome. All right. Well, I’ll just say, and of course, the final question, is three words to describe your practice.
Adam: Mindful, and the two other ones… Mindfulness, rage, and I want to say yin-yang. Is that the thing I can do?
Craig: I said hyphens are free, so-
Adam: Okay, so mindfulness, rage, and yin-yang. That’s it.
Craig: Terrific. I think that’s a good punctuation on the end of our conversation.
Craig: Adam, it was a pleasure. It’s been a pleasure to talk to you previously, and had the random like, “Hey, could we?” Then, we put it together at the last second just before you’re taking off, so I’m glad we had the chance. I’ll have to come out and visit you next.
Adam: Yeah, for sure. This is a great practice and just like speech in general, like one on one, it’s great conversations and I hope we can do more of these.
Craig: Oh, I hope so [crosstalk 01:15:15] too. I’ll do as many of them as I can.
Craig: Keep going and going and going. All right. Well, I said it was a pleasure and thanks [crosstalk 01:15:21] so much.
Adam: No problem. Thank you for having me.