020. Sebastien Foucan (Part 3 of 3): Movement journey, path to truth, and coaching styles

Podcast episode


Craig: Welcome to the Mover’s Mindset podcast. These are the public episodes, but do you want to hear more? Become an insider for access to extended guest conversations, follow-up episodes with your questions, and other deep dives. Visit moversmindset.com/insiders. Thanks for listening.

Craig: Welcome back to the final part of Sebastien Foucan’s interview. If you’re just tuning in now, be sure to go back and check out parts one and two. Throughout this interview, you may find the occasional French word or phrase along with Sebastien’s accent. So I encourage you to use the transcript that we release with each episode to help you fill in anything that isn’t entirely obvious. Thank you and enjoy.

Craig: Let’s dig a little deeper into learning. That’s really a key part of exploring. And I don’t mean to be negative, but I understand that you weren’t a great student in school, that you really didn’t want to learn, and you’re clearly on the opposite end of that spectrum now in terms of your desire for knowledge and reading and visual. Can you tell me how did that change from not wanting to be …?

Sebastien: Basically, wherever you are works for some people. It doesn’t work for others. So for me, my understanding of school when I was younger, which is a bit different now, was “I hate it.” Because it was kind of a trauma. But I had to have absolute freedom. To get to this place where you have to sit down and listen, and they don’t ask you what … Now, school probably changed, which is more organic, because they learn. But just to listen, and it was kind of racing for grades. It was super traumatic. Because of my personality, and I was more a dreamer, and in some ways always the eyes towards the skies and watching stars and everything, and was always in my head. And getting this place where they force me to get information, which I didn’t want to get, it was pretty difficult. So I didn’t want to learn. Before, when I was kid, I wanted to learn. Every kid has that.

Craig: Curiosity, right?

Sebastien: Yeah, curiosity. “Dad, what’s that? Mom what’s that? How does it work?” And then the parents say, “Stop. Okay, you’re annoying. Stop saying that to me. Leave me alone.” Do you see? Politely, but, “Stop it now, you ask too much question.” But we can talk about the super power later. This is our super power. And I discovered that later. So for me, it’s like I went through a phase where I don’t want to learn. I want to escape from school. It’s awful. And then my school was the school of outside. And not the street, because people think parkour came from a street, no. Now I’ve been in Pennsylvania, and it remind me–Lisses–the birth of parkour, the place where it started. It’s a mix between the city, where we’re living, like human being living, but well matched, and well–

Craig: Blended, or mixed, or woven?

Sebastien: Yeah, yeah. With nature, this is what I like. This is why my friend and I, we keep moving. Because we are courageous for activity, it connects us with nature, everything. We talk about energy, like we can hear the animal, you can breathe. Everything is there.

Craig: Yeah, after it rains, you can smell the earth, and you hear the birds. Right.

Sebastien: You see, now I’m not even talking about like philosophy and Zen and everything. No, it’s right there, with your senses. It’s right there. So outside I learned that, and I grew because of that. Then I thought, “Oh my God,” then I become curious again. And then out of the curiosity, that’s how I discover I’m an explorer. And then my brain, I cannot stop asking question, "What is that? Why are we doing this? You see?

Craig: So it becomes this self-directed quest for knowledge.

Sebastien: Yeah. I mean you, Craig, I see your library, I’m just … My brain process almost like Terminator. You know, Schwarzenegger? So it’s just like I process everything, you know? Richard Feynman, you see?

Craig: Oh, yeah, there’s a giant poster of Richard Feynman on my wall, the physicist.

Sebastien: I know him, and I like the way he explained it. Because in my school, they never explained the way he explained it.

Craig: Feynman was pretty special, yes.

Sebastien: On YouTube I was watching, and I never heard about this guy, but then I literally, because of my curiosity, I dived into him, like from all the story and everything. Also the trauma he had from working in the nuclear bomb, and everything. So you see, that’s my free running thing. I’m a guy who’s doing physical activity, but I know about this guy. And if you ask me about math, you will see it’s limited, but how do I know that? It’s because I’m curious. And just the way he talks, he made it accessible for me to understand. That’s, for me, he’s the guy–

Craig: That’s a master, right?

Sebastien: Yeah. And you see the coincidence now. I come to your place. It could be anyone, but no, it’s him.

Craig: Just Feynman on the wall.

Sebastien: And then you’ve got Ueshiba from Aikido. How does it happen? So for me it’s all this stuff, and then he encouraged me, and I’m very … That’s my spiritual side. It’s like there is a sign. There is something … I think I have to admit, I had my value, very strong value. I still have them, but at a certain point of my life I lost faith, absolutely lost faith.

Craig: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sebastien: For me, yeah, that’s it. And then after, I don’t know by which magical circumstances, something happened to me, then I regained faith. It’s like you call for whatever people call it, from the universe or something like that, and something … It’s very deep what I’m going to explain, because I can’t explain that, but something really respond to … I didn’t ask anything. They respond to …

Craig: Respond to the need, or the [crosstalk 00:06:07].

Sebastien: Oh, yeah, to an obvious change of my behavior. Saying like I’m lost. And I’m not desperate, I’m not like suicidal and everything, but literally it’s like you lost a compass. I was literally, I talked with my sister, and I explained to her how I behave now. She said, “No, that’s not you.” Because she knew me, I’m highly driven, and I’m energizing everything, and I slow down everything. So I was doing nothing literally, and just walk around.

Sebastien: You call me to do a thing, I’ll do the stuff, and then I stopped. It’s almost like I switch off. And then circumstances come and just bring me back on track. And that gives me so much faith now. It’s almost like, say, “I don’t know how it works, but guys, you need to believe.” As strange as it is, you need to believe. That’s why I’m doing a tour. What I do the tour I’m not talking about that, but I know now I’ve got something to transmit. As I say, it’s very hard, it’s very hard. As I say, it’s stuff beyond me. It’s like something beyond me. But if someone watched my story of what I’ve done, or if I talk more, they will say, “Oh, yeah, it’s fact. Why did you meet this person now? Why did you talk about that, and why did this happen to you?” I have no idea. And then go back to this, it’s like, “Yeah, but Seb, you’re still an explorer and you’re in demand. You ask for something, and you’re in research for this, and you go in there.” So you want to become this butterfly.

Craig: Yeah, and here I’m going to split a language issue. You used the word, the verb demand in English.

Sebastien: Yeah.

Craig: In French it has a very, much more polite … Like in English if I say, “I demand more coffee,” it’s rude, but when Seb says I demand, when he says it in English what he meant was there’s a French word, which is exactly the same, and it just means like to politely ask for something. So you can literally demand coffee in a restaurant, that’s how you asked, “Could I have a cup of coffee?” So I just wanted to point out that you weren’t … I hate to interrupt people when they’re talking, but I wanted to make it clear that you meant demand like in a polite, seeking, questing way, not like a, “I want the answer!”

Sebastien: Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I say I’m in demand, it’s I was in research, or I was seeking. Seeking?

Craig: Seeking.

Sebastien: I was seeking for something.

Craig: Yeah, that’s the verb I would’ve chosen.

Sebastien: I apologize to everyone for that.

Craig: No, no. I mean, part of my job is to make sure that the people who are virtually behind me, that things that fly by on the highway, or things that fly by I’m like, “Wait, that was important!”

Sebastien: People need to understand, like I am a kind of a paradox. But I think it’s like Yin-Yang. Because I’m an explorer, nothing is stay stick. I’m still evolving. That’s also, it’s very hard for me to … When they say, “Oh, he’s the master of this, he’s the master of that,” people are so quick to put you in the position of a master. But a master doesn’t learn anymore, and I don’t believe in that. We are student all our life. And for me, it’s very important to make sure, like I always put myself out of this pedestal, and I can still always learn. In all my life is like that. Everything I do is driven by that.

Craig: Do you want to talk about books? Do you want to take a stab at that, or do you want to just talk about …

Sebastien: I don’t know, because I don’t know what I want to say about books. Maybe, no. Because the book I was going to choose, it’s always like–

Craig: It’s always a miss.

Sebastien: Yeah, there’s plenty of books. But I think I watch more than I read. You know what I mean? If you ask me, “What do you watch?” I watch basketball. Because I move from individual people, who are the top of the top of their field, to start to understand like they’re not by themself, and there’s people who make them like this. It’s the environment and the surrounding. So I start to question myself more about the environment. As an example, for example, Michael Jordan, the Chicago Bulls, I watched for a long time. Michael Jordan personally. Because as I say for me it’s just like he literally fly. He was amazing. Driven or so by the fact that he’s been put to the side, like to the bench, “Okay, you’re not worth it for this team,” so this ignite a fire in him forever. So he’s got this competitiveness.

Sebastien: But anyway, around him he’s got surrounding, his mother, his father, his brother. He say his competitiveness come from his brother. His mother encouraged him when he said, “I’m going to quit.” “Do not, keep on going, and prove them wrong.” And then he have the many, many coaches, which teach him the way. So it’s not by yourself. Then after you become such a unique person and everyone praises you, that you can imagine your ego has become big. And then for me the question is how does someone with a big ego like this, how does someone can manage with someone with an ego like this? And then you find about Phil Jackson.

Craig: Right.

Sebastien: Who had the task to bring this guy, who literally made the team, and make this franchise, and make him to listen to me.

Craig: Right.

Sebastien: And that’s where I had this book, like The Sacred Hoop. That’s one of the book, if people are very interested in selflessness, Phil Jackson, for me, is amazing. Link also with Craig Popovich, from the San Antonio Spurs. San Antonio Spurs, basketball.

Craig: Oh, sorry.

Sebastien: That makes me look at this. And then after, as people can imagine how my brain is working, “Oh, is there any other sport when I can learn about how you can …” How can I say that. I try to find the right word. How you can understand the personality of every single person in your team, and make them all get to the same direction. So you’ve got American football, you’ve got this, you’ve got rugby. You got plenty of sport like this. You’ve got soccer, football.

Sebastien: And then I dig into this, so I’ve got the French team when I watch when we won the World Cup in 1998. Mostly we were so above the competition at this time, so I didn’t care about who was the best and everything. I was literally care about how did this set up–

Craig: Yeah, what’s the environment that those individual people are performing in?

Sebastien: Exactly, the environment. So I went into tennis player, and then I say, “Oh, sometimes the tennis player, they fire the coach and entire staff, and then they took a new staff. Why is that?” Because they’re very aware about in order for me to perform …

Craig: This isn’t working, right?

Sebastien: Even if they’re super talented, they can say this guy is [inaudible 00:12:56], it doesn’t work if the environment, I dig into that. That’s why sometimes in the environment of parkour I cannot talk, because they talk so much about parkour. Say, "Yeah, but you’ve got a library around you of information, and we don’t tap into it. So for me it goes from tennis, we talk about aikido and the concept of aiki, ayurveda with doshas, yoga, with eight limbs, and all this stuff.

Sebastien: And then after, you start to see, as I said to you, there is a truth. That’s why my logo has no name. Even like you can see Foucan Freerunning Academy, because I need to say my Academy, and teach, and make a living. But however, the truth why my logo has no name is it doesn’t mean parkour. It looks like a guy’s jumping, but no. It’s a person who’s seeking for the truth. And that’s what my logo is about.

Sebastien: And that’s what I do daily. So as I said, from aikido, climbing … So this idea of, I said, now I’m going to use some word, will resonate for the people at edge of water, effortless, I would say let it go, adapt, embrace simplicity. All this stuff resonate for someone who’s where I am now. And as I say, like you can see people I admire, like from Michael Jordan, Roger Federer, Michael Phelps–

Craig: Bruce Lee, right?

Sebastien: Bruce Lee, [inaudible 00:14:19]. All of them, strangely enough, and we talk about art, they’re sport man, right? But all of them, there is a grace when they talk it’s like, Oh, it’s so graceful. It’s like a ballet.

Craig: Yeah.

Sebastien: They use this term of art. I told you truth is right there, and that’s transpired through visual. And that’s why I’ve been, for a long time I didn’t know why, like a magnet.

Craig: “I’m drawn to that.”

Sebastien: Yeah. Now I know it’s because I’m an explorer. This is it. This is what they do. And then of course now I need to listen to what they say. For example, for Michael Jordan point of view, I don’t really … The competitive side, I still listen to competitive side, because it’s very important for successful person to understand certain aspect of human being. We can probably talk about that when we talk about entrepreneurship. I would love to talk about Steve Jobs also. Knowing his behavior wasn’t particular … You know what I mean?

Craig: Human beings are complex.

Sebastien: Yeah. So, go back to that. But however, I was really keen about why does he choose to move that way? You know, you can be very robotic in the way you move. What makes you have this kind of sensitivity? For example, Bruce Lee, pretty easy. He was dancing, you know, he was doing cha-cha-cha. That’s the type of dance he was doing. So he was very good with kind of–

Craig: Snappy.

Sebastien: Yeah. But really, the dance, it’s tense so he’s got the rhythm in him. And then after also, he had fencing, so he learned to fence. And then you know about the step and everything. So he created this concept around that. But you can see where he gets this gracefulness. And in Asia also, they’ve got kind of a very type of kind of quality things like that. Anyway, with the philosophy, because he was really keen with the philosophy. And then as I say, there is Michael Jordan. But Michael Jordan leads me to Doctor J. Do you know Doctor J?

Craig: Not personality, no.

Sebastien: Okay, but you heard about him, and basketball?

Craig: Yes, yes.

Sebastien: And then when I dig into that, I say, “Oh my God, that’s the Michael Jordan version of … These guys bring all this creativity things.” And now, everything great. Michael Jordan say, “Yeah, I try to emulate Doctor J.” Now you can see, nobody’s by himself. There’s always an inspiration. That’s why I try to convey even through parkour. This is why I’m an explorer. And this journey, I find truth, because it’s not about me, Seb.

Sebastien: So, “Where did you get your inspiration from, Seb?” Oh my God, I can tell you. From Ueshiba, from Mohammed Ali … Mohammed Ali, another one. See, it can be like this.

Craig: More and more surfaces the more you think about it.

Sebastien: Elusive, effortless, genius, completely different. Out of the norm. Does this sound like parkour? You know, everything does the same, but I’m doing different. I’m doing my thing. That’s what we have, that’s why we try to become this butterfly. Everyone. Some people would deny, no, no, no, no, this is it. It’s like in Matrix, you choose which–

Craig: Which pill.

Sebastien: And then I show you how deep goes the rabbit hole, you know?

Craig: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Sebastien: That’s the story. Truth, this is what I call the ultimate truth. It’s not my truth. It’s right above our heads. And the more you meditate, the more whatever you do, bring you like an awakening, and then you find peace. That’s where you enter to age of water. And then everything becomes super clear. That’s why also when we talk about, I know in parkour there was a lot of political issues, and people were fighting, and fighting, and fighting. I’m not in the same journey. Sorry, guys. Whether it’s for training, whether it’s for the battle of what’s going to happen for the future of the … I’ve got faith.

Craig: So Sebastien, we could do this for hours.

Sebastien: Yeah, sorry, sorry.

Craig: No, don’t be sorry. I’m just saying there’s many, many things to talk about. What I’m most interested here in is getting at the things that no one will hear if we don’t talk about them. You had made a comment, not in the podcast, you made a comment before about an idea for like a coaching exchange, and you really are passionate about talking about coaching techniques, and trying to get coaches together to work on … I don’t want to put words in your mouth. Give me your idea about coaching, and tell me some more about what you are thinking.

Sebastien: Yeah. One thing upset me, now we got more and more coach, we’ve got certificate and everything. But also, we’ve got different sensitivity and ideas toward coaching. And I think, because parkour has become more and more democratic, I think it would be good to have … My dream is it would be good to have something where people get together, and we exchange. We talk so much about political issues, but for me it’s like I’m an explorer, so I want to find the cause of my ignorance, and I want to learn with others. Coaching is good, but parkour is teaching a certain a way that’s not traditional. I talked to you about traditional warm-up, which I do a nontraditional warm-up.

Craig: Right.

Sebastien: And for me it’s the same with coaching. Why do we follow all the coachings there is, and why don’t we do our own way? And that’s something that can be taught together.

Craig: Yeah, you’re not saying throw everything out, you’re saying we should get together and discuss it. Like, did we make a conscious choice?

Sebastien: Yeah, we can bring guests, and people will coaching, and talking about knowledge about physiology and everything. But just, I will bring for example the concept of autonomy. For example, when do we start? Who teaches us everything? We’ve been inspired, but who teach us to do anything? Nobody. It become organic, it has become now very sophisticated and more advanced, because people have knowledge from everywhere, it’s become something.

Craig: Right.

Sebastien: And it’s kind of organic. But the autonomy. Like for example in sports, everyone’s related to their coach. And always looking, okay, is that good? Is my moves good? In parkour, we’re not doing that. You need to understand what you’re doing, by yourself. A bird doesn’t have a coach. It’s like this is it. It’s a belief.

Craig: So how do you bring the coaches into that? You’re saying that the autonomy of the–

Sebastien: [inaudible 00:20:31] way of teaching, is how do you teach, how do you convey autonomy? How do you free new student from the–

Craig: The blockage?

Sebastien: How do you say, the cuff?

Craig: Oh, the handcuffs.

Sebastien: The handcuff of yourself. Because you give them something, but you are supposed to lead them towards freedom, not towards bondage.

Craig: Yeah, boundaries and confinement.

Sebastien: Yeah, and cage. And because of the business concept, you say, no, no, no, I want to monetize my clients.

Craig: Yeah, I need to monetize the relationship between the student and myself. If I’m a coach, I need to monetize this. So how do you do that while still creating freedom within them?

Sebastien: Yeah. Because normally, parkour cures something different. So for me, I would say that to my student. I would say, “Guys, I’m going to tell you, I know it’s not good for the business, for my business, but because of who I am, from what I feel, I have to tell you that you don’t need me. My goal is to free you from any coach ability. I need to give you the knowledge I’ve got, so you can do it by yourself.” Then I believe you will stay with me, because now there is another aspect–

Craig: And there’s a relationship.

Sebastien: The togetherness.

Craig: Right.

Sebastien: And then it’s even better when everyone’s kind of same level. Because when we practice, it’s fantastic, but it’s no more because you’re my slave kind of, sorry to use that, but you are kind of–

Craig: Yeah, you feel like you are attached to me, that the only way that Craig can go out and train is if he is with Seb, his coach.

Sebastien: Yeah, and you can go anywhere, you can move anywhere …

Craig: So what’s your vision for that? I’ve been to a couple of events, and most of the events that I’ve been to, the people who are there tend to be coaches.

Sebastien: Yeah.

Craig: Because the coaches tend to travel, and they have a passion. But there really isn’t a–

Sebastien: Can I say something without …

Craig: Sure.

Sebastien: Finish story, I shouldn’t interrupt. He said there isn’t what?

Craig: I was going to say there doesn’t seem to be an event that’s particularly dedicated to coaching.

Sebastien: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Craig: And there is one, there’s an Art of Retreat that’s happened a few times now, which gets into bringing community leaders together.

Sebastien: Yeah.

Craig: But it’s still not strictly about coaching. So what’s your vision for …

Sebastien: First of all, there is a problem. There is always a problem I think, but sometimes there is an elephant in the room, but nobody talks about that.

Craig: A little slower. Sorry, you lost me.

Sebastien: There is a problem in the matter of coaching and everything in the history of parkour, but it is like there is an elephant in the room, and nobody talk about that.

Craig: Right.

Sebastien: And it’s linked with influence. Some people got a background of fitness coach and everything, and then get into parkour. They mix …

Craig: Mix the two, they try–

Sebastien: Blend of their background with degrees and everything they’ve learned, within the parkour organic kind of whatever they do. And they become what it is now, we’ve got certificates and say now, these are the rules, you need to warm up the joint … and now it’s become kind of democratic. Everyone does this. But for me it’s like, “But hold on. Could we just be pioneer, and think differently?” Like Steve Jobs, that’s why I talked about Steve Jobs. Can we think differently? Think Different.

Sebastien: That’s the idea. When we talk about coaching, for me it’s not about saying, “Oh, Seb is good. Seb is here, he knows everything.” No, no, no. I’m going to put in the middle of the table some subject, like autonomy, how to teach autonomy. And I’m fully aware of all the business, I want to be a successful business person, but this is the essence, when we talk about non-competition and everything. Autonomy’s part of that.

Sebastien: There is also another stuff, like when we talk about … Some people are kind of like, “Yeah, I don’t like the way they’re teaching, because it’s become like too much of a conditioning way, and too much of a” … It’s become too much like robotic kind of stuff like that. And then there’s the other way, so yeah, but then how good is a coach? But it’s not really good, when you see another guy, who doesn’t have the responsibility, cannot transmit, but technically, physically, and as an athlete is like, “Whoa, this is good.”

Craig: So that identifies the issue–

Sebastien: Gathering.

Craig: But a gathering that would be specifically–

Sebastien: Gathering with that battle is admit what it is.

Craig: But the people who are invited, it’s also a gathering of coaches.

Sebastien: It’s not invited. It’s like you come if you want. It’s different.

Craig: But I mean, it’s aimed at people who are coaches. Yeah, you don’t want to make a clique in the inside.

Sebastien: Because there are too many things in a parkour environment, where it’s like I invited you or I choose to not invite you because I decide, “He’s an idiot.” No, no, no. It’s open. You know a computer, right?

Craig: Yes.

Sebastien: Remember Homebrew Club?

Craig: Nobody else listening’s going to know what you’re talking about, but yes.

Sebastien: Why I do this, I do it in purpose, I have to admit. I force them to search, and to be curious, and to say what is he saying?

Craig: Right.

Sebastien: What is he talking … If I don’t do it, say I didn’t understand, it’s up to you. That’s when you don’t use your brain. And I do it on purpose, because it forces them to get out of the discipline they knew, and to find out what is he talking about. And the Homebrew Club has this moment where at the early stage of the computer stage, where all the guys they were meeting together and sharing information, they discovered everything, and it was very creative at this period. Very, how can I say that, was exciting. It was very exciting, because they were the first bring the Altair. The first computer was…

Craig: Yeah.

Sebastien: Only like the guys who got high IQ …

Craig: Yeah, only a few people were interested in like understanding how computers work at that high level.

Sebastien: But why say that? Because I tap into all the history for people to understand our history. If you understand that, you can say, “Oh, yes, to be open in order to get something xeroxed back,” was the saying. It’s kind of laboratory stuff, when people just experiment thing and everything. Of course, Steve Jobs came here and said, “Oh my God, I can make a lot of money with that.”

Craig: Right.

Sebastien: But my point why I say that is because there is a moment especially linked like with artists. You need a place when it’s creative. It’s not selective, it’s creative. And then people need to stop arguing, and just being open, and see, and see, and see. And out of that, something’s going to come. That’s why I bring the subject of autonomy, the subject of, “Is that true or wrong? Right or wrong?” Does it work or not? Does it work or not? Could you literally test it?

Craig: Yeah, in the coaching context.

Sebastien: Yeah, day one we talk.

Craig: Day one we talk, day two a bunch of practitioners show up.

Sebastien: Yeah, just a practice together. Day three a bunch of beginners come, intermediates come, advanced come. Last day, conclusion, start to think about it. And then everyone go back to their Academy, or whatever they do. Then after we meet again, and they say look, this is what I do. Now we’re in an era of information. We can film, we can write, it’s amazing what we can do. And sometimes when we start coaching that’s what we do.

Sebastien: I did Adapt Level I and Level II, and now it’s evolved I’m sure. I’m sure it evolved. But when I did it, Level II was so much into physicality. I was a bit frustrated, because for me where was the coaching? And I’m not judging it, because people need to understand there were nothing before that. There were nothing.

Craig: Yeah, it’s unfair to criticize, because they had to make a path in order to even do that.

Sebastien: And then for me, I can say it. Why? Because I did it.

Craig: Right.

Sebastien: It’s exactly like everything I say. I say it because I did it. And now I can make a comment, but also I’m very aware that now I evolved. Because that’s it, I adjust, and I adjust, and I adjust. But also, by the way, it doesn’t called … The real [inaudible 00:28:33] is not Adapt, it’s First for Sport. That’s the name of the things. Adapt is the branch of the First for Sport is the parkour branch, who makes this certificate. Works in UK. And for a long time, people don’t get it. They think it’s a product of one company, and that’s it. No, it’s not. It’s a good idea. For something never happened, it’s because people want to teach. And I don’t want to give my kids to someone who’s going to be on the top of a rooftop …

Craig: Right, some random person.

Sebastien: Yeah, and they’re going to kill my kids. For me, I said, “No, no. I want some …”

Craig: Some boundaries.

Sebastien: Yeah, some boundaries. So it’s a good thing. People like to always, how you say, whining?

Craig: Whine, or people are always negative, they always …

Sebastien: Yeah, negative.

Craig: It’s much easier to stand in the back and say what the person in the front is doing wrong, than it is to go like take a step forward and see what happens.

Sebastien: For me, everything is Yin-Yang, everything is Yin-Yang. I cannot agree for everything, though also I cannot disagree for everything. And that’s why people can’t stand for what I say, because … But I say, “Sorry guys, this is where I am in my journey.” They cannot stand it, because they want to stand for one to another, and fight. I say, “I understand your point, but I understand their point too.” In the coaching, I’ll go back to coaching, I want the coaching, because we’re still at the beginning of the development of the discipline–

Craig: Yeah. It’s interesting, you know, you were talking about the seasons, about whether people are in fire or water.

Sebastien: Yeah.

Craig: I really think the discipline itself goes through that same, you know, a martial art would go through that same lifecycle.

Sebastien: Yeah, it’s true.

Craig: It’s going to be interesting to see how the discipline matures, and what happens … In the discipline faces challenges, and those challenges can be real or perceived …

Sebastien: Yeah. I would say that people will learn. I think I learned that through meditation. I call it projection and visualization. Some people can poorly visualize, and poorly project. I think I’ve done it for so many years, so for me it’s like sometimes intuition. But I think it’s because I can project … As I say, I make a joke about Earth number one, Earth number two, Earth number three. I can literally imagine a different scenario, and I can see … It’s like I close my eyes and I see myself, not like a ghost, but imagine myself interacting to this world, and how this plays–

Craig: Yeah, if this plays out this way, that plays out that way, then what happens …

Sebastien: Yeah. And by doing that, and it’s through meditation, you will get better knowledge. That’s why Master Yoda said, it’s only when you come in peace, then you … Because how can I make the difference between the dark side and the other side, say, “You know when you come in peace.” That’s the same thing.

Craig: What’s next for you?

Sebastien: Oh, I don’t like this question. What’s next for me? I don’t know, I just don’t know. What’s next for me? I want to be a successful entrepreneur. Because I understand like parkour is something I started, come to me. I do it as a passion, now I do it as a job. This is a job I love to do. I’ve got absolutely no problem with money. Money’s not a dirty thing.

Craig: Money is a system for keeping account.

Sebastien: Yeah. For me it’s not … It’s important, and it’s not important. It’s kind of like Yin-Yang, you know? Again. And for me it’s like, I want to be successful, not just having titles …

Craig: Yeah, it’s what you’re able to do once you’re successful. So you can provide for your family, you can take the message further. Whatever your personal journey would be, success enables that.

Sebastien: Yeah. For the future, I would like to have more opportunity based on what I do and what I believe, but true opportunity. Like because I say, I’ve got a long journey, not people who use me. You’ve never truly been used, because you’re high enough in the journey, people take advantage of that.

Craig: Right. Or they feed you something you want to hear, and then you run in the direction they wanted you to run.

Sebastien: Yeah. But literally to be more positive and constructive, I want more collaborative, true collaborative things. And the link to the stuff I love. I’m a public speaker, I am a coach, and also I’m still … I think I felt like … Sometime I’m in between. I feel like acting, I still have something for the acting bit, action acting. But it looks like, for me, the window is closing.

Craig: I was going to say, there’s an age bracket.

Sebastien: Not so much. Because as I say, yeah there is, but there is not. I don’t know if you’ve seen, I think it was yesterday, I saw a movie with the Rock. He’s huge, the Rock, so fantastic. But he did the jump.

Craig: Yes.

Sebastien: Of course he didn’t do this jump, of course physically cannot do this jump. Of course he’s less athletic than he was when he was doing the wrestling, right?

Craig: Right.

Sebastien: So there is not so much a limit, because with a script you can do whatever you want.

Craig: Right.

Sebastien: Daniel Craig cannot catch me. You know what I mean?

Craig: They told you to slow down, didn’t they?

Sebastien: Yeah. No, you know what I mean.

Craig: Right.

Sebastien: I accept this is a movie, but you can do whatever you want. And without being disrespectful, I say for Bond, because I think Daniel Craig’s the most physical I think from all the Bond, alongside Sean Connery I would say. But let’s be honest, like I do parkour. This is my thing.

Craig: Yeah.

Sebastien: So when you talk about age …

Craig: Age limitations.

Sebastien: I know what I’ve got. And I know it’s an artistic world. You don’t have to do things for real.

Craig: So is that where you actually think you’re going next, is you’re going to pursue acting?

Sebastien: No, I think I’m … Maybe naively I’m thinking there will be people who … Definitely I think it’s maybe naively, but I think there is some stuff … I think people will see the potential. Like someone say, “How is it possible after you’ve done James Bond, like no one contacted you [inaudible 00:34:51]?” I say, “I don’t know.”

Craig: Just never happened.

Sebastien: Yeah, never happened. But I come up from a point, like I was doing nothing and they contacted me from [inaudible 00:34:58]. So I always say like, if I’ve got something, and have seen it, they’re going to call me. Like Nike, like working with modern art. But if they don’t call me, that means they don’t need me. That’s why sometimes I say, “Okay forget it,” but it doesn’t mean I’ve got no idea for a movie. I’ve got plenty of idea for a movie. It strike me the first time I start to do James Bond. I say, “Oh my God …”

Craig: “Now I see how this works.”

Sebastien: Yeah, and I see what we can do. Because a stunt guy literally get pulled by himself with the rope. For the actors, and the stunt guy learn how to fall into a mat. But we learn how to land on our legs, and we’ve got so much technicality and everything. And I’m an athlete.

Craig: Right.

Sebastien: Even now … Nowadays there is people who can do jump most sophisticated than myself, like another twist or cat pass and everything. I still love the athleticism of running. Some people does parkour, they cannot run. I can say, I can spoke with [inaudible 00:35:55], you see how he run poorly? And because it’s a motion picture, it’s visual, it’s like it’s not because you’re good at parkour that’s when your overall expression is beautiful.

Craig: The overall expression, right?

Sebastien: Yeah. And I believe, without being too much, I have that, and still now I have it. And people don’t have it. So maybe for me, from 2006, they missed a lot of time where they can use me for any movie, and that’s it. They did a lot of movies with parkour, they used a lot of people, but they don’t have my knowledge and understanding of artistic expression.

Craig: Yeah, I was going to say, it ties back into your artistic expression.

Sebastien: That’s what I’m saying. So for me, I’m not close to the artistic. I’m a public speaker, I like to transmit to see everything I see. If you see me, how long I talk, people think like, “Oh, yeah [inaudible 00:36:39].” But the stuff I’m talking, I’m not talking like randomly. It’s something I want to convey deeply. And I’m a coach, and I like to transmit. That’s why I speak and come alongside with this.

Sebastien: And for me the next would be something alongside that, but as I say, I’m waiting for how the way’s going to respond. It doesn’t mean I’m waiting, I’m doing nothing. I’m doing my stuff, but I’m just always aware …

Craig: Paying attention to what’s going on out there.

Sebastien: That’s it.

Craig: And of course, the final question. Three words to describe your practice.

Sebastien: Okay, so my three word will be exploring, or explorer, which mean I would be short on that. I will say we are born to explore and to try new things. So try to remember that, guys.

Craig: That’s an excellent thought.

Sebastien: Then I will say always in motion, which is linked with the concept of be well to my friend. And also the idea of the holistic concept, which is the idea of well-being, basically, always in motion. Running water never grows stale. And the last one is playfulness, which is about this idea of enjoy, and appreciate the fact we’re alive. And learn from that also, being able to learn from the playful. Because playful is very linked with creativity. Creativity is linked with art, and so on and so on. So playfulness, for me, is the path for truth.

Craig: Thank you very much, Sebastien. It’s been a pleasure to talk to you.

Sebastien: You’re welcome.

Craig: Want more? Check out moversmindset.com/insiders for a bunch of additional features. This was Episode 20. For the show notes and full transcript, go to moversmindset.com/20. Thanks for listening.